kennedy
Member
used up my supply of 223 reloads in my ar15, so getting ready to stock back up, until now only used the tapered crimp on the bullet seating die, thinking about the factory crimp die(I use it in other cal) any suggestions?
Lee 223 factory crimp die
- Thread starter kennedy
- Start date
Soonerpesek
Member Shnember
MY opinion….
AR15 = no crimp needed…..
Now please revisit the first words of my post…
AR15 = no crimp needed…..
Now please revisit the first words of my post…
I have and use Lee factory crimp dies for pretty much every cartridge I reload including .223/5.56 for shooting in AR's. You don't have to set the Lee factory crimp die for a heavy noticeable crimp, just a regular crimp is fine.
I like the Lee collet crimp dies because they seem to give a more uniform crimp on cases with slightly different length variations.
I like the Lee collet crimp dies because they seem to give a more uniform crimp on cases with slightly different length variations.
I use the FC die for 223 sometimes, 30/30 and a few other. It's a very useful tool. Like MikeInOr stated it produces light to heavy crimps and the case length doesn't matter within reason.
I have found that a light crimp can lower the Standard Deviation in some of my firearms and tighten up the group size especially in old military rounds for some reason.
I have found that a light crimp can lower the Standard Deviation in some of my firearms and tighten up the group size especially in old military rounds for some reason.
If your 223 brass is sized correctly, case neck tension is sufficient to keep the bullet in the case.
Crimping bullets do not improve the accuracy of a bullet. Squishing a bullet deforms the soft lead core, which then un predictably moves the center of gravity from the axis of rotation, and is a source of inaccuracy.
Speer published this after Lee made claims about their factory crimp die improving accuracy
and this is what the factory crimp die will do to 6.5 mm SMK's. Sure makes a cannelure.
Crimping bullets do not improve the accuracy of a bullet. Squishing a bullet deforms the soft lead core, which then un predictably moves the center of gravity from the axis of rotation, and is a source of inaccuracy.
Speer published this after Lee made claims about their factory crimp die improving accuracy
and this is what the factory crimp die will do to 6.5 mm SMK's. Sure makes a cannelure.
If you ask this question of 5 reloaders, you are going to get 7 opinions. I agree that if you indiscriminately squish the crap out of the bullet, as shown in the pictures above, it will seriously degrade accuracy. But that is not how I use the die. After seating the bullet, I measure the diameter of the brass near the base of the bullet / right above the shoulder. I then apply just enough crimp to reduce the diameter of the brass mouth to no more than 0.001" less than the first diameter. It works well for me. To each his own.
ballman6711
Member
I don't crimp my AR rounds in .223 or 7.62x39. Neck tension alone keeps the bullets in my dummy rounds from moving, and I test it by loading my dummy round in the mag and chambering ten times using the slide/bolt release. Slams it into the chamber pretty good, COL doesn't change. If it did change, I would figure out why before I would resort to crimping. I usually make two dummy rounds to rule out a fluke, sometimes I'll make three.
My AR ammo sometimes gets chambered twice for whatever reason, and could possibly get chambered three or even four times, but unlikely to be chambered ten times.
And in my testing, my uncrimped ammo had a slight accuracy advantage over the crimped ammo that I made.
Test it both ways for yourself and see what you think. I think you'll like the uncrimped ammo better, although I could be wrong.
chris
Varminterror
Member
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Don’t crimp. 4-5thou neck tension. No crimp.
FROGO207
Member
The short and long of it. I dont crimp bottle necked ammo as I can shoot the difference in accuracy vs uncrimped. Neck tension when correctly done will hold your bullet. I batch load on a SS press and this would also introduce an extra unnecessary step.
If you feel crimping helps by all meand do it. You do you.
If you feel crimping helps by all meand do it. You do you.
How are you getting 4 to 5 thousands neck tension? Most over the counter reloading equipment will get us .003 at best.
Varminterror
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• Pull your expander ball, most over the counter reloading dies will yield much tighter than 4-5thou without the expander
• Spin your expander ball in a drill press against emory paper to reduce the dimension to the appropriate neck tension you desire
• Use an inexpensive, over the counter expanding mandrel die with the appropriate mandrel diameter to produce the neck tension you desire
Easy stuff. That’s why so many of us responding in this thread are all able to do it.
jmorris
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- 26,892
If you ask 5 that have opened up group size crimping bullets not designed to be crimped it gets closer to 5/5.
CoalTrain49
Member
I think one should talk to precision/match shooters who build their own ammo. I'm not a match shooter but I built a precision bolt rifle and reload my ammo. Just about everything I've read about .223/5.56 loading suggests one doesn't need to crimp. That's coming from precision/match shooters. I suspect they know a thing or two.
But if it makes you feel better than by all means crimp your ammo. ¯\_㋡_/¯
But if it makes you feel better than by all means crimp your ammo. ¯\_㋡_/¯
If your using a bullet that dosent go clear through the neck. Or a long cartrage that the bottom of the bullet dosent go past the bottom of the neck you would have a bulge necking down that far. It will be smaller below the bullet. Plus you will notice the bulge can be offset. Zero reason to have a hole that much smaller than the bullet.
Two thou below bullet diameter won't grab any tighter than five thou. Just resizing your hole with a bullet. It will look like a bullet bulge on a .357. False sense of accomplishment
I was just asking how you did it while wondering if you just assumed you were getting.005 neck tension. Yep lots responded but your the only one that explained after prompting.
AJC1
Member
I crimp 5.56 fmj with cannalures, but I also trim my cases uniform every time. If you don't meet both of those items I don't. Fmj does not make precision ammo imo
Varminterror
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Varminterror
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Bingo.
For you that's great. But if you pull your bullet and check with a ball guage and your good mic your back where you started.
Not a 17$ caliper of course. It's called stretch. It would be dif with a harder material than thin annealed brass. But that's cool for you.
Charlie98
Member
Back Home, Years Ago, EVERY cartridge I made had the patented Charlie98 Death Grip Crimp... lots of brass rings sheared from case mouths, overworked case mouths, and deformed bullets. Because, you know, nothing exceeds like excess.
Once I started reading up on handloading for accuracy, I started taking the crimp out... slowly at first, to be sure! ...but I'm finally at That Place where I trust neck tension to hold my bullets, even in the somewhat violent action of an M1a or Garand.
I have taper crimps for everything I load, including rifles. When I made the transition from heavy roll crimps, I did it by moving to taper crimps... so I was still getting a crimped cartridge, but with less deformation (assuming I kept my hand out of it...) and better results. I still use a taper crimp on much of my pistol ammo, including revolver ammo (not heavy recoiling Magnums) and I will usually throw in a light taper on my 5.56mm and 7.62mm blasting ammo, just because. I understand this is completely neurotic and serves no purpose, but we all have at least one fault... and that's mine.
As far as the Lee FCD, I still maintain it is an answer in search of a problem. Properly prepped brass does not require an esoteric crimp solution.
Once I started reading up on handloading for accuracy, I started taking the crimp out... slowly at first, to be sure! ...but I'm finally at That Place where I trust neck tension to hold my bullets, even in the somewhat violent action of an M1a or Garand.
I have taper crimps for everything I load, including rifles. When I made the transition from heavy roll crimps, I did it by moving to taper crimps... so I was still getting a crimped cartridge, but with less deformation (assuming I kept my hand out of it...) and better results. I still use a taper crimp on much of my pistol ammo, including revolver ammo (not heavy recoiling Magnums) and I will usually throw in a light taper on my 5.56mm and 7.62mm blasting ammo, just because. I understand this is completely neurotic and serves no purpose, but we all have at least one fault... and that's mine.
As far as the Lee FCD, I still maintain it is an answer in search of a problem. Properly prepped brass does not require an esoteric crimp solution.
Using no expander seating bullets will stretch the neck more, but it still holds tighter than using the expander, whether that is .002 vs .005 or whatever it works out to.
One thing about the collet style factory crimp die for rifles is it's waaaay to easy to over do it, making things even worse than just a light crimp would.
A long time ago when I used to load "blasting ammo" in .223, I used a light taper crimp just because I figured it would help feed by making sure the
case mouth wasn't catching on anything, but I am not sure it ever touches anything, dunno. That said, I do not crimp .223 ammo any more. For rainy day
ammo that must fit/feed in any SAMMI spec chamber, I used a Sheridan minimum spec case gauge to check them all, as well as a very light taper crimp.
That's for function first ammo, not target ammo.
A long time ago when I used to load "blasting ammo" in .223, I used a light taper crimp just because I figured it would help feed by making sure the
case mouth wasn't catching on anything, but I am not sure it ever touches anything, dunno. That said, I do not crimp .223 ammo any more. For rainy day
ammo that must fit/feed in any SAMMI spec chamber, I used a Sheridan minimum spec case gauge to check them all, as well as a very light taper crimp.
That's for function first ammo, not target ammo.
Charlie98
Member
This guy tested crimp vs no crimp impact on accuracy.
youtu.be
The best way to figure out if you're crimping too much is to pull a bullet and see.
Bobs' 223 Bulk Bullets - Crimp tests
What's all this crimp nonsense about?UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with YouTube content policies.www.patreon.com/reloading
youtu.be
The best way to figure out if you're crimping too much is to pull a bullet and see.
deadeye dick
Member
I crimp just barely enough to just feel a slight resistance on the handle.
