Lee 9mm Carbide Factory Crimp Die (FCD) Issue

[dak45]

Hello,

I am new to reloading and have recently started reloading 9mm. I have noticed an issue that arises when I am at the bullet seating and crimping stage. The dies I am using for these stages are Lee's carbide bullet seating die and Lee's carbide factory crimp die.

I am seating my 9mm cartridges at an overall length of 1.1100", and this OAL is achieved with the Lee carbide bullet seating die. The Lee seating die also seems to bring the crimp area to 0.3795". At this stage, the cartridge passes my chamber checker, and the OAL does not change even after chambering the round..

Once I have seated the bullet with the Lee carbide bullet seating die, I then use Lee's carbide factory crimp die. This die seems to bring my overall length to 1.1110", and increases the crimp to 0.3785". Now, after using the factory crimp die and chambering the cartridge, the OAL of the cartridge has increased from 1.1110" to 1.1135".

Is this a normal occurrence with the Lee carbide factory crimp die? Also, would it be fine to skip using the Lee carbide factory crimp die?

 

[bullseye308]

If you have good neck tension of about .003” you don’t have to crimp. You can flare the case just enough to get the bullet to set, seat it, then just remove the flair to .378 or just less.

 

[LiveLife]

Welcome to THR.

reloading 9mm ... overall length of 1.1100"

You didn't mention bullet type/nose profile you are using but let's say you are using 115 gr FMJ/RN bullet, 1.110" is at the shorter end of the OAL.

I am new to reloading and have recently started reloading 9mm

When I am conducting load development, I initially start out with longest OAL that will work with the barrel and reliably feed/chamber from the magazine for initial powder work up before shortening the OAL to see if accuracy improves. See "plunk test" - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/reloading-tips-the-plunk-test/99389

Most 115/124 gr FMJ/RN bullets will fully chamber in most factory barrels at 1.169" but I found shorter 1.150" and even shorter 1.130"-1.135" will produce greater accuracy from improved neck tension which also helps with reducing/preventing bullet setback.

For 115 gr FMJ/RN with shorter bullet base, once initial powder work up identifies most accurate powder charge and I am not at max charge, I will test incrementally shorter OAL (In .005" increments) to see if accuracy improves. So starting at 1.130", if shorter 1.120"-1.125" OAL produce smaller groups, I will use shorter OAL. If not, I will use 1.130". And if shorter 1.110"-1.115" OAL produce smaller groups, I will use shorter OAL. If not, I will stay at longer OAL.

crimp ... to 0.3795" ... Lee's carbide factory crimp die ... increases the crimp to 0.3785"

Is this a normal occurrence with the Lee carbide factory crimp die? Also, would it be fine to skip using the Lee carbide factory crimp die?

Yes, since FCD was designed to bring finished round's dimensions to SAAMI max dimensions.

Generally, since case wall thickness at case mouth is around .011", I usually add .022" to the bullet diameter to bring flare back flat on the bullet and skosh more. So for .355" sized bullet, .355" + .011" + .011" = .377" taper crimp. And for .356" sized bullet, .356" + .011" + .011" = .378" taper crimp.

While I use Lee dies for 9mm, I do not use FCD. But many reloaders prefer to use FCD so they can seat and crimp in separate steps.

BTW, here's step-by-step for 9mm load development you may want to check out - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-and-discussions.778197/page-10#post-11419509

 

[LV Gun]

Hello,

I am new to reloading and have recently started reloading 9mm. I have noticed an issue that arises when I am at the bullet seating and crimping stage. The dies I am using for these stages are Lee's carbide bullet seating die and Lee's carbide factory crimp die.

I am seating my 9mm cartridges at an overall length of 1.1100", and this OAL is achieved with the Lee carbide bullet seating die. The Lee seating die also seems to bring the crimp area to 0.3795". At this stage, the cartridge passes my chamber checker, and the OAL does not change even after chambering the round..

Once I have seated the bullet with the Lee carbide bullet seating die, I then use Lee's carbide factory crimp die. This die seems to bring my overall length to 1.1110", and increases the crimp to 0.3785". Now, after using the factory crimp die and chambering the cartridge, the OAL of the cartridge has increased from 1.1110" to 1.1135".

Is this a normal occurrence with the Lee carbide factory crimp die? Also, would it be fine to skip using the Lee carbide factory crimp die?

First the seating die does not have a carbide in it , it seats the bullet and crimps it if you so desire to crimp at that stage. I use Lee 4 die set for 9mm which has the FCD die. The FCD die will not increase your crimp measurements, but if you are using range brass with different head stamp you will get different crimp measurements due to the case wall thickness, for me it does not increase your OAL if that is happening you may need more neck tension meaning back your expander out slightly. You can skip the FCD die if you want but I like them mainly because if you get a round that is not quite right it will iron it out.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Since you're new, simplify, simplify, simplify.

Why crimp twice? Heck, once isn't always necessary with 9mm.

By crimping twice you're confusing things for yourself, may be causing your own problems, and you're measuring yourself into a stupor.

So I suggest
1) adjust your seating die per Lee's instructions to NOT also crimp. Then,
2) properly adjust the crimp die and use it alone to crimp (if necessary). Then,
3) make up some rounds (live or dummy) and see how they do.

Then, read this about taper crimping (which is the type you are using for 9mm).

Taper Crimp: Everything you need to know

Taper Crimp: Everything you need to know

czfirearms.us

 

[MEHavey]

As long as the initial seating die is adjusted to taper the mouth closed from being flared, no additional crimp req'd.
As to the FCD increasing the OAL by 0.002"... think of the FCD as you squeezing a toothpaste tube....

 

[rsrocket1]

No need for the pistol FCD unless you are loading really fat bullets that bulge the case and need to iron the bulge out. Even then, you should fix the problem by not using overly fat bullets. The only reason for even using the taper crimp portion of the seating die is if you have to flare the case mouth in order to seat a flat based bullet without shaving lead. I do so I use the taper crimp. However it's not the FCD. I minimally flare the case mouth with the powder drop/flare die, seat with the seating die, then use a separate taper crimp die on the 5th station of my LnL AP to just barely close the case mouth and bring it just past vertical to ensure good feeding in all my 9mm guns. I've found that the FCD tends to squeeze the case too much. With powder coated and lead bullets, there is enough give in the bullet to hold the bullet in with neck tension. With plated and jacketed hollow points, there is not enough give in the bullet jacket and they tend to get very loose with only the crimp keeping the bullet from falling out. With 40 and 45ACP, I only set the FCD low enough for the carbide ring to press the top 1/8" of the case. That's enough to remove the flare.

 

[CQB45ACP]

OP don't get confused by the pro or anti FCD flavor embedded in these comments. Come to understand what it can and cannot do before deciding if it's creating, masking, or fixing problems.

 

[bfalcon00]

OP don't get confused by the pro or anti FCD flavor embedded in these comments. Come to understand what it can and cannot do before deciding if it's creating, masking, or fixing problems.

This right here!

The Lee Factory Crimp Die is very controversial. Some love it and some hate it. I only bring this up again as I assume you are relatively new to the hobby and might not be aware of this.

As stated above, I would recommend seating and then crimping in separate steps. Adjust your seating die to not crimp as per Lee instructions. One thing Lee does very well; in my opinion, is the directions that come with their dies are well written.

 

[.45Coltguy]

Oh the threads regarding the Lee FCD are indeed something to marvel over. Just the mere mention of them brings out the "love/hate" comments faster than just about anything else handloading related. I have 'em and I use 'em. Zero issues here. Never ending saga.

 

[dak45]

Thank you for all of your helpful replies. I will be experimenting with the different solutions that were presented here. Again, thank you for the help.

 

[RashQuestion]

+1 and 2 on welcome!!! A large amount of great information here!!! You will appreciate it. I know I have!!!

God Bless and Good Luck with our hobby! Stay safe!

 

[bullseye308]

Hang in there, we all started where you are, some of us before the internet and only had books to figure it out from. You will get all the help you need here if you ask, and put up with some silliness occasionally. This is a great place filled with great folks.

 

[CQB45ACP]

Hang in there, we all started where you are, some of us before the internet and only had books to figure it out from. You will get all the help you need here if you ask, and put up with some silliness occasionally. This is a great place filled with great folks.

Some even before that, only stone tablets.

 

[kcofohio]

A lot of good post in reply to the OP.
I would add that ditch one crimp or the other and do the plunk test with your barrel(s).
Here is the instructional link for the plunk test.
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rel-find-a-max-o-a-l-with-your-bullet.506678/

 

[Average Joe]

I have the 4 die sets, but I don't use the FCD anymore, wasted step.... Just seat and crimp with the seating die, Lee has instructions on how to set it up ... see the brochure that came with the dies.

 

[dak45]

Update:

I would like to offer my thanks to all of you for your warm welcome and assistance.

Following the advice from LV Gun on decreasing the amount of flare from the expanding die and rsrocket1's advice on neck tension, I have solved the issue I was having.

To conclude, it seems that too much flare from the Lee expanding die and carbide factory crimp die caused my cases to not have enough neck tension, thus the "bullet creep" issue.

 

[Walkalong]

it seems that too much flare from the Lee expanding die

That will do it, almost anyone's expander can.

Another thought, if it wasn't mentioned, the case is tapered, so be sure to have the die all the way
down and slightly contacting the shell holder/plate when actually sizing a case.