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Lee Factory Crimp Die?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Parks2055, Mar 29, 2012.

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  1. Parks2055

    Parks2055 Member

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    Hey Folks - Quick Question.
    Is the Lee Factory crimp Die a Roll Crimp or Tapper Crimp?
    I thought is was a Tapper crimp, but just read a forum were a guy said it was a Roll crimp?
    On the topic - What is best for 40S&W?
    And is Roll Crimp better for Revolver rounds?
    Thx,
     
  2. Jeff H

    Jeff H Member

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    Depends on the caliber. For 40S&W, it would be a taper crimp.
     
  3. Parks2055

    Parks2055 Member

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    Ah - I see. Each caliber will come with the approprriate FCD.
    Thanks.
     
  4. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Auto pistol calibers headspace on the case mouth, and you must use a taper-crimp to preserve a case mouth for them to headspace on.
    Auto pistol calibers shot in a moon-clipped revolver could be roll-crimped as the clip would set the headspace..

    Revolvers use Roll-crimp to keep the bullets from pulling under recoil.
    A taper-crimp could be used in light recoiling target loads.

    Lee provideds the correct crimp for each caliber in the seating dies, as well as in the FCD.

    rc
     
  5. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    I thought the Lee "factory-crimp" die was just a pinch-collet arrangement.

    So, neither a conventional taper crimp, nor a roll-crimp.

    Isn't it actually a simple SQUASH-crimp?
    The more you turn it down, the more squash the collet-fingers appy?

    If the Lee die can provide the roll-crimp element too, wouldn't it need some sort of lump-shaped shoulder on the collet-prongs to accomplish this?
     
  6. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    The question arises,

    Are we referring to FCD in handgun calibers or FCD in bottle neck rifle calibers?
     
  7. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    The OP is talking about 40 S&W so handgun FCD.

    Rifle FCDs are "squash crimp".

    Handgun FCDs crimp in a more conventional manner with the sizer ring.
     
  8. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    The FCD for straight walled pistol calibers is not a collet type. It will come with the appropriate type of crimp, either taper or roll. Case lengths need to be reasonably close to each other for consistent crimps.

    For bottle necked, and perhaps straight walled, rifle calibers, the FCD is a collet type crimp die which is oblivious to case length.

    The .357 Sig is a pistol caliber, but is bottle necked and the FCD for it is a collet type.
     
  9. unknwn

    unknwn Member

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  10. mingansr

    mingansr Member

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    as usual, take the advice and knowledge of RCMODEL. of course, the others have good thoughts too. good bunch here
     
  11. chhodge69

    chhodge69 Member

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  12. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    For the Carbide FCD that this quote is from, this is total BS. I believe it gets a lot of new reloaders in trouble. We are always having folks over crimping and asking what is wrong. (Yes, with other die brands as well.)

    While the o-ring set up has some flexibility, and case length is not quite as critical as with a crimp ledge that is built in to the body of the die, you most certainly can screw it down too far and buckle/ruin cases.

    They should be more clear in their statements.
     
  13. GLOOB

    GLOOB Member

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    I figured they meant it was impossible to buckle a case outward, so as it won't chamber. Yeah, you can overcrimp it, but it'll still load and go bang. If it fits in a finishing die, it'll fit in your chamber. Which is always a good thing, except when it's not.
     
  14. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    It can buckle it outwards, the carbide ring just mashes it back. :D
     
  15. mdi

    mdi Member

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    FWIW; I had a Lee FCD for .44 Magnum and used it once. I shoot 99% cast bullets and the FCD swages down my cast bullets so they are too small and lead the barrel. I fixed it though; I punched out the carbide ring and use the die for roll crimping only! For my 45 ACPs, I have no need to post-seat-size my ammo, as my reloading methods result in no chambering problems.

    I believe a new reloader should learn how to reload properly so there is no need to "fix" their reoads to chamber properly...
     
  16. James2

    James2 Member

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    I have no need and no desire for a Lee FCD. I suggest you put that thing in a dark spot and forget you have it.

    Seat and crimp with the die that came with your die set. This is the way to eliminate all the problems caused by the Lee FCD.
     
  17. Sport45

    Sport45 Member

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    What problems are those? Every pistol FCD I have puts a nice crimp on the round and the sizing ring barely kisses the brass if it touches it at all.
     
  18. Jeff H

    Jeff H Member

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    You must not shoot lead bullets. If you did, you probably wouldn't make that statement.

    But, they do crimp nicely. Of course, the regular seating die crimps nicely too.
     
  19. jcwit

    jcwit Member

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    This is just what I did. One day the kids will go thru the stuff in the back of the drawer and say, Wonder why Dad had this and never used it.

    The Lee FCD does fix all the non existent problems.

    So true, so true!
     
  20. Sport45

    Sport45 Member

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    My handgun shooting is 95% or more done with cast bullets. For all practical purposes the sizing ring in the FCD is the same diameter as the chamber. If the FCD was squeezing the round enough to swage the bullet the cartridge wouldn't have fit in one of my chambers anyway.

    Okay. They might fit in the chamber of my .45 Redhawk, but .45 Colt chambers are very large anyway. Bullets sized for the throats of that gun are no problem at all in the FCD.
     
  21. NeuseRvrRat

    NeuseRvrRat Member

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    weekly argue-about-the-FCD thread
     
  22. Parks2055

    Parks2055 Member

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    Ya - feel like I opened a small can-O-worms with the FCD.
    People seem to be very for or against Lee FCD.
    I figured for starting to reload it may make it easier to learn doing the steps separately.
    However, I am having trouble keeping a consistant COL so am thinking to try seat and crimp together and see if this helps.
    May not be the issue, but at least a different approach.
     
  23. cfullgraf

    cfullgraf Member

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    Crimping in the same step can have an effect on variable cartridge over all length. More so with roll crimps than with taper crimps.

    I would suggest buying a separate crimp die or pop the carbide ring out o your FCD and crimp in a separate step.

    Look for other issues with length variability although some is normal.
     
  24. mingansr

    mingansr Member

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    i agree wiyh NeuseRvrRat. i'm about to load some 40's with my brand new (219.95 at fsreloading.com) Lee Loadmaster. yes, it's got some funky gimmicky ways of indexing and auto primer feed, etc., but i love it so far. setting the dies and primer depth today and will load 12 rounds to fill one mag in my XD, go out to the range, put the 12 thru and check for flattened primers. loading 5.8 gr. of Viht..... 3N37 powder with my 180 gr Prec. Delta jacketed bullets.

    lotta guys bad mouth Lee vs RCBS, etc., but every bullet i shoot comes out of my dwindling IRA, so thank God for Lee and reasonable priced equipment. i'll take er slow and i'm sure i'll be fine.

    FCD was like 12-15 extra, cuz the press came with the 3-die set installed. hell, i just can't beat the price. Long Live Lee!
     
  25. bds

    bds Member

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    I thought the carbide sizer ring in the FCD was .001"-.002" below SAAMI specs? (see email from Lee Precision below)

    I am a Lee Precision fan and don't see any issues using semi-auto pistol FCD for jacketed diameter bullets FCD was meant for.


    But for larger sized plated/lead bullets, I do not use FCD as post-sizing of the bullets may reduce neck tension (when some mixed range brass with varying case wall thickness spring back away from resized bullet) and lead to bullet setback during chambering when the bullet nose bumps the feed ramp. The QC check I now use for neck tension is measuring OAL before/after feeding/chambering a finished round from the magazine by releasing the slide. If you have significant reduction in OAL, your neck tension is not sufficient.

    If you experience leading with rounds finished with FCD, especially if your barrel is oversized, not using the FCD is the first recommendation I would make as you need .001" larger bullet than groove diameter of the barrel for proper bullet-to-barrel fit. Post-sizing of lead bullet to jacketed bullet diameter will definitely reduce bullet-to-barrel fit which increases gas cutting, bullet base erosion, leading, etc.

    If you want to seat/taper crimp semi-auto cases in separate steps with larger diameter lead bullets, you can either remove the carbide sizer ring or have Lee Precision enlarge the carbide sizer ring.

    Here are some comments about semi-auto FCD use with lead bullets from Lee Precision:
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2012
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