Lee FCD hitting every round

[k4swb]

A couple of years ago I got at least two large batches of plated bullets from two different mfgs. that were out of round. All the bullets in each batch were not OOR and I guess as I was checking things I was unlucky enough to miss all the bad ones.

Found them pretty quick when I started shooting them. Instead of pulling all the hundreds of rounds that would not chamber, I just bought a FCD and ran all of them through it. I could tall every time when one was not right.

The FCD "fixed" them and I've been using it every since for plated bullets with great results.

I like the crimp adjustment better on the FCD than just screwing the die in and out.

 

[mdi]

Yep I tried it on my .44 Magnum, once. I separately seat and crimp and the FCD was what I had so I tried it. It swaged down my lead bullets so I got leading from a proven "no leading" load. I still have it somewhere out in the shed, but I now crimp with a RCBS roll crimp die. As for my 45 ACP, I have never had any problems chambering my reloads so there is no need for a FCD...

 

[res7s]

I could use a 44 mag FCD if you want to donate it to me, or we could swap something. I think it would make a pretty snazzy .457-.458" sizing die. Used for sizing anything that needs to be .457" or .458" in diameter.

 

[918v]

The people who claim it resizes bullets have the die adjusted wrong.

How does adjustment of this doe affect bullet size???

 

[Chuck Perry]

Check your OAL before and after running a round through the Lee FCD. It's been my experience, particularly with lead bullets, that the round will be slightly longer after it's been through the die.

 

[918v]

That's because the bullet is swaged down in the case, thereby making it longer.

 

[Chuck Perry]

Really? Has anyone pulled a bullet and done a measurement before/after to confirm this? I always figured the greater OAL was caused by the bullet "catching" on the carbide ring as the cartridge was being removed from the die, causing it to move forward slightly.

 

[rondog]

I think its preference thing. I personally like the LFC die, but of course on here if somoeone doesnt use it then it automatically sucks. The FC die just smoothes out any small inperfections there might be, and I have never had a round not feed when using the FCD. The people who claim it resizes bullets have the die adjusted wrong.

Dont take everything you read on here to heart. All i heard was how unique wouldnt feed through a auto disc powder measure, finially i tried it and after measuring 30 in a row that weighed within .2 i was really upset at myself to not using it a year ago just because i read it didnt work.

I agree. I use the Lee FCD's on 12 calibers and like them, they give me no troubles. If a person's having an issue, call Lee about it. But there's no end to the guys here that tell us we're idiots because we don't do everything exactly THEIR way. And not just about FCD's or reloading either. Self-righteousness abounds here.

 

[918v]

The carbide ring does not touch the bullet. It touches the case. It swages the case and the case in turn swages the bullet wchich is sitting in the case. And Yes, my 45 ACP FCD reduced .452" bullets to .451" after I pulled them, so I sold it.

 

[EddieNFL]

Gosh, how do you explain all the reloaders over decades, having their reloads "chamber and fire EVERY TIME" without the FCD.

Proper technique?

 

[beatledog7]

Why all the FCD bashing?

Does it make you guys feel good to trash anyone who finds a use for the FCD?

I use my .38/.357 FCD to crimp in a separate step, thus avoiding case trimming. I use my .40 to remove the Glock bulge from pick-up brass that needs this step.

Does any of that mean there's something inadequate about my technique?

How about lighten up.

 

[k4swb]

Gosh, how do you explain all the reloaders over decades, having their reloads "chamber and fire EVERY TIME" without the FCD.

Better QC on the bullets at the manufacturer in my case. The plated bullets I ended up with were of poor quality from two different manufacturers. So far it has been a one time thing. They were the first out of many plated bullets that were bad and I have not gotten any since.

I blamed it on the rush when the last presidential election was over.

 

[LiveLife]

These comments are for semi-auto pistol FCD.

I believe the FCD was originally meant to be used with jacketed bullets and jacketed bullet diameters as many posted the inside diameter of the carbide sizer ring won't affect finished round that's spec'd for jacketed bullets.

Mine does it with lead bullets, but rarely if ever with copper bullets.

Personally, I make my jacketed diameter loads work without the FCD. Making the finished rounds reliably fit the tight chambers of Lone Wolf barrels does take some work, but have been happily doing it for quite a few years. My FCDs collect dust in the die box. For 40S&W, you could use it to reduce the bulged case base that regular resizing die can't reach by push-through sizing. But if your cases continues to bulge like that, I would reduce the powder charge/change powder or use a tighter chambered barrel that's fully supported instead of continuing to rework that part of the case which may weaken it.

I really don't see any problem of using FCD for jacketed diameter bullets, especially if one wants to seat and taper crimp in separate steps.


However, some people who used the FCD for larger diameter lead bullets have reported having issues with leading, neck tension and/or bullet setback along with decreased accuracy. Well, then don't use the FCD for larger diameter lead bullets.

If the carbide sizer ring post-sizes the lead bullet, brass case will spring back away from the lead bullet which remains in the post-sized diameter. This may lead to reduced bullet-to-barrel fit, reduced neck tension, increase bullet set back and inconsistent chamber pressures.

The carbide ring does not touch the bullet. It touches the case. It swages the case and the case in turn swages the bullet wchich is sitting in the case. And Yes, my 45 ACP FCD reduced .452" bullets to .451"

Another issue raised is the swaging of lead bullets increasing the OAL. If you are using max load data and measuring the OAL before the finished round is post-sized with the FCD, then you may have issues, especially if you are at Max OAL for your barrel.

Check your OAL before and after running a round through the Lee FCD. It's been my experience, particularly with lead bullets, that the round will be slightly longer after it's been through the die.

That's because the bullet is swaged down in the case, thereby making it longer.

Many posted that they want to seat and taper crimp lead bullets in separate steps as to reduce the shaving of the bullet sides. I add .020" to the diameter of the lead bullets to determine the taper crimp to use (so for .356" bullet, .376" taper crimp; for .401" bullet, .421" taper crimp; for .452" bullet, .472" taper crimp, etc.) and rarely have issues with shaving of the bullets. But I do appreciate the rationale and for this, you can opt to knock out the carbide sizer ring so you can seat/taper crimp in separate steps without post-sizing the lead bullet.

I would also suggest that when in doubt - ask the guy who made it - I have called and found Lee's customer service staff to be extremely courteous, friendly and helpful.

Yes they are and offer the service of enlarging the diameter and repolishing the carbide sizer ring for a nominal fee. This way you can use the FCD for lead bullets without worrying about post-sizing the bullet diameter and seat/taper crimp in separate steps.

I got at least two large batches of plated bullets from two different mfgs. that were out of round. All the bullets in each batch were not OOR and I guess as I was checking things I was unlucky enough to miss all the bad ones.

Keep in mind that not all plated bullets are sized the same as jacketed. Berry's bullets are typically sized similar to lead bullet diameters and may get post-sized like lead bullets. X-Treme 9mm bullets are sized at .355"/.356"/.357" and PowerBond 9mm bullets are sized at .3555" so if you find yourself post-sizing these bullets, they may not be "out of round" but simply sized larger.


Now, if Lee Precision would offer FCDs with different sized threaded carbide sizer like in the discontinued Speed Dies, it would solve problems for reloaders wanting to use the FCD for both jacketed and lead diameter bullets. BTW, John Lee of Lee Precision did say he may consider such a product if the market interest was sufficient. So, if you are interested in such a product, speak up on this thread so we can let Mr. Lee know.

Discontinued Lee Speed Die showing removable threaded sizer ring.

 

[k4swb]

I got at least two large batches of plated bullets from two different mfgs. that were out of round. All the bullets in each batch were not OOR and I guess as I was checking things I was unlucky enough to miss all the bad ones.

Keep in mind that not all plated bullets are sized the same as jacketed. Berry's bullets are typically sized similar to lead bullet diameters and may get post-sized like lead bullets. X-Treme 9mm bullets are sized at .355"/.356"/.357" and PowerBond 9mm bullets are sized at .3555" so if you find yourself post-sizing these bullets, they may not be "out of round" but simply sized larger.

This was before the companies started double/re striking all their bullets and they were obviously out of spec.
My cousin ran into the same trouble with bullets bought around the same time.

Not all of the bullets in the batch I got were out of round but about half were. I dropped over 1000 rounds in my chambers to check and ended up having to run about half of them through the FCD.

Heck of a lot easier than pulling the low quality bullets and they ended up shooting just fine.

Since then both mfgs. have been post sizing all their bullets after plating and I have not had the problem again.

 

[LiveLife]

Not all of the bullets in the batch I got were out of round but about half were. I dropped over 1000 rounds in my chambers to check and ended up having to run about half of them through the FCD.

That may have been the case, but there is another factor to consider and that is the bullet ogive hitting the start of rifling.

For another thread, I was testing the absolute Max OAL of Berry's 185 gr HBRN in Sig 1911 with very quick start of rifling by dropping the test round in 90 degrees rotations (dropped 4 times for each OAL) and found that not all the rotations passed the drop test at 1.26" OAL (amount of taper crimp was not changed, just the OAL).

My impression was that the start of rifling/ogive of the bullet were not the same for all the rotations and the bullet's ogive was hitting the start of rifling. Decreasing the OAL to 1.25" ensured all the rotations passed the drop test without hitting the start of rifling.

Post-sizing the bullet diameter could also reduce the ogive contact away from the rifling to allow the finished round to chamber deeper, but that may not have been the case for your situation.

 

[1SOW]

I have heard this means something is wrong in my other steps, any ideas on what would cause this? I am at a loss

This is unlikely to be a problem, IF the OAL is correct as bds said above.
The FCD ring is set to saami std size for that caliber. If the case were "lubed" you probably wouldn't feel it "touch" the case coming out.
For my 9mm, I've found much as others have already said about about brass and bullet diameter variations and one more thing.
Brass does have some "spring" to it. When you size it, it's squeezed to size and released. You can size it again and it will go in the resizing die MUCH easier, but it will STILL BUMP THE DIE, just much lighter. The harder/thicker brass cases (like WIN in 9mm) will do it MORE than the softer brass like F.C. in 9mm.
The FCD in 9mm on my press hits just a fraction lower on the case than the sizing die. It will also have a little friction coming out of the FCD, just like yours.

Hope this makes sense.

 

[medalguy]

I use a Lee FCD in 45 also, and I feel the bump you describe. I have found that when loading jacketed bullets I don't need to bell the case mouth very much, but with plated bullets a little more bell is required less the bullet snag on the edge of the case and rip the plating off. To work around this problem, I started belling a little more, and found it harder to taper crimp and get all the belling out. The Lee FCD solved this problem, and yields excellent ammo. I've loaded thousands of rounds of this ammo and not had the first malfunction.

If the bump doesn't bother you, don't worry about it. It doesn't seem to hurt a thing.

 

[beatledog7]

This from bds.

But if your cases continues to bulge like that, I would reduce the powder charge/change powder or use a tighter chambered barrel that's fully supported instead of continuing to rework that part of the case which may weaken it.

Just to be clear, all my .40 loads are middle of the road. I use the FCD to take the bulge out of brass I buy as once fired. About 10% of them usually fail the case gauge after resizing, and the FCD fixes about 90% of those. If they fail after the FCD, they get recycled.

And FWIW, my .40 is a Gen4 Glock, and the issues of older Glock .40s are absent.

 

[LiveLife]

The FCD ring is set to saami std size for that caliber.

Unfortunately, there is quite a bit of variations in thickness of case wall depending on head stamp and production lot and thicker case walls mean less space for the diameter of the bullet inside the case.

I have found that when loading jacketed bullets I don't need to bell the case mouth very much, but with plated bullets a little more bell is required less the bullet snag on the edge of the case and rip the plating off. To work around this problem, I started belling a little more, and found it harder to taper crimp and get all the belling out. The Lee FCD solved this problem, and yields excellent ammo. I've loaded thousands of rounds of this ammo and not had the first malfunction.

Well, I could see the waves of reloaders about to protest, "But what about all of us who don't use FCD to load our ammunition. We also use plated bullets and do not have malfunction issues."

Most match shooters I have shot with do not use Lee dies nor FCD for their match loads. And believe me, they use match barrels with tighter fully supported chambers. Need to use FCD to make their match ammunition more reliable would not be an option for them. I use larger diameter Berry's plated bullets (along with Rainier/PowerBond/X-Treme) and Lee dies without the FCD. Using .020" added to the diameter of the bullet for taper crimp works well, even in tight chambered Lone Wolf and Sig 1911 barrels.

I wonder if Atlanta Arms & Ammo who supplies various match shooting teams (Team Glock and the US Army AMU, etc.) use FCD to ensure their new and reloaded ammunition function properly.

 

[LiveLife]

I use the FCD to take the bulge out of brass I buy as once fired. About 10% of them usually fail the case gauge after resizing, and the FCD fixes about 90% of those. If they fail after the FCD, they get recycled.

If you push-through resize the bulged cases in FCD, won't they all pass the gauge?

Do your middle-of-the-road load cases shot in Gen4 Glocks resize to specs just with the regualr resizing die?

 

[beatledog7]

If you push-through resize the bulged cases, won't they all pass the gauge?

Do your middle-of-the-road load cases shot in Gen4 Glocks resize to specs just with the regualr resizing die?

I suspect the ones that don't pass are simply too bulged to retain the resizing--they spring back into their bulged state and so are done. The ones I shoot in my Gen4 G22 resize just fine with an RCBS carbide die and don't need to "de-Glocked," as it is often called.

 

[LiveLife]

If your spent cases resize within specs with the regular resizing die, you are good to go.

 

[beatledog7]

Yes, I know. Thanks.

 

[918v]

If one needs a case gauge to verify his reloads, he needs to work on his technique.

 

[beatledog7]

If one reloads using a bullet one has never used before, one must have a method for verifying the new round will chamber.

I know that for .40 S&W rounds other than cast lead (which I test in my Storm Lake barrel then test chamber from the magazine), a round which passes the drop-in/fall-out test in the tightly spec'd case gauge will feed and chamber in both the SL and factory Glock barrels. The gauge is stored in the die box, so it's also convenient.

Once I get the dies set and locked in, the gauge isn't needed again until I run a new batch, but sometimes I drop every tenth round or so in just to ensure nothing has slipped. So, what about that tells you my technique is weak?