Lee Pro 6000 unboxing and testing for OAL consistency

tightgroup tiger said:
GW Staar,
Do those bullet feed dies work on coated lead bullets? I have the Horandy bullet feed die but I think I already know it won't work with coated lead bullets.
I don't mind setting them by hand but having a bullet feeder that works with the bullets I use, on the 6 station press, would be to much to ignore.
I'll be watching to see what Lee invents for a bullet feeder and the I want the stepped ptx for my measure.
Click to expand...

I didn't see this question til tonight.

The 3d printed bullet feed dies I printed (TylerR's) uses 2 ball bearings that protrude under the base of the bullets. As you lower the die onto a case the bearings slide into a groove that allows the bullet to drop, then the die is raised and the bearings come out again under the next bullet. I can't see any reason why a coated bullet would make a difference, but I don't use anything except jacketed and Berry's plated bullets. Powder coated? I can't think of a reason why not.

tightgroup tiger said:
It's going back for a refund. The primer system doesn't work, the primers won't come out of the primer container, so I shook it by hand to get the shoot full and tried running some cases through it.
The pin that is supposed to shake the primer container doesn't touch the rod with the grooves. It's never going to feed without being shook.

About three primers jammed up in the trough where the primer dispenser runs and lock the press up. I had to dig my primers out of the chute and there was red paint or something laying in the shoot with them. Don't know where that came from but I'm not wasting any more of my time with it.
I just got done boxing it back up for the trip back.

I'll call Lee tomorrow.
Click to expand...

That's a shame....glad I'm not having those problems. The last three primers won't feed to the shuttle, but that's because the slope runs out at the bottom and there's no stack behind them to push them.

One other thing I did .... I took the chute off the press, and finding it "opens," I got a Q-tip and some powdered graphite, and burnished the inside surfaces of the chute. But still the last three lie level so they're not about to go anywhere without a push.

I've got an idea to make a pusher just for the last three that can be placed on the chute.....but it's still a pain to have to watch for the last 3. I'll post it if it succeeds.
 
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GW Staar said:
I didn't see this question til tonight.

The 3d printed bullet feed dies I printed (TylerR's) uses 2 ball bearings that protrude under the base of the bullets. As you lower the die onto a case the bearings slide into a groove that allows the bullet to drop, then the die is raised and the bearings come out again under the next bullet. I can't see any reason why a coated bullet would make a difference, but I don't use anything except jacketed and Berry's plated bullets. Powder coated? I can't think of a reason why not.



That's a shame....glad I'm not having those problems. The last three primers won't feed to the shuttle, but that's because the slope runs out at the bottom and there's no stack behind them to push them.

One other thing I did .... I took the chute off the press, and finding it "opens," I got a Q-tip and some powdered graphite, and burnished the inside surfaces of the chute. But still the last three lie level so they're not about to go anywhere without a push.

I've got an idea to make a pusher just for the last three that can be placed on the chute.....but it's still a pain to have to watch for the last 3. I'll post it if it succeeds.
Click to expand...
Posted before
This works for me on the Pro 1000 because I hate leaving primers in the press and can run the last few out without adding more.
Its a chip clip, skewer, and a piece of thin metal shaped angle:
ChipClipSkewer.JPG
Wood skewer to avoid sparks...
Might tape something to the skewer for more weight next time I need it.
Hey, maybe a fishing weight (sinker). :uhoh:
:D
.
 
NOTE: Listing of step-by-step press set up, operation, enhanced practice for greater consistency and troubleshooting on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-9#post-12471889
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ManFromMontana said:
BTW - thank you so much for taking all the time for such a great evaluation
Click to expand...
You are very welcome.

ManFromMontana said:
so in your opinion, the PRO 6000 isn't quite there yet...too many little things yet to work out. Is that a fair assessment?
Click to expand...
While waiting for Thanksgiving Day food to cook, I did some browsing of various forum discussions on SPP/Pro 6000 unboxing to parts breakage to stuck shellplates that won't index, etc. that made me ponder.

After weeding/filtering out obvious new user/operator error that led to parts breakage with most posters admitting fault due to unfamiliarity with new press operations, I found these initial impressions:
  • General - Many posted problems involved pre-production presses with red colored parts or black colored plastic/3D printed parts that have since been replaced on production presses
  • Primer slider lifting at spring end - This problem was initially addressed by applying black hold down piece to primer slider channel/trough then resolved by using longer primer slider which eliminated the use of black hold down. This was confirmed when I spoke to Calvin from Lee Precision by telephone regarding beta testing Lee's new inline bullet feeder (If you have short black primer sliders with black hold down, they will continue to work fine and do not require replacement) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-6#post-12466560
  • Primer slider spring end snagging on tabs/crushing spring - This problem occurs when spring end tolerance stack to rub/hit the four tabs on primer slider channel/trough as slider moves back and forth causing the slider movement to hesitate or be jerky. I sent Lee an email and they are already addressing the issue with reshaped spring end. This is the cause of primer slider spring being crushed/damaged. If you are experiencing this problem, you can narrow the spring end with pliers, ensuring there's a gap for the end to slide up through the slot in the attachment hole - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-5#post-12454989
  • Priming rod/pin not dropping all the way down - This problem was due to bottom carrier cover having round hole the same size as bottom of priming rod/pin which allowed powder granules to accumulate preventing priming rod/pin from dropping fully or hesitating. This problem was addressed by triangle shape cutout around the priming rod/pin to allow granules/debri to fall out and also with longer spring for stronger retraction of priming rod/pin. (But powder pouring out from flashhole from unprimed case could be secondary result of next issue and if you eliminate the cause, you will also eliminate the resulting problem)
  • Priming rod/pin is rubbing/binding in the sleeve hole - This problem occurs when two flathead screws to top shellplate carrier cover is tightened while pushing on the priming rod/pin and/or tightening the panhead screw for the bottom cover. When Lee sent out new bottom covers with triangle cutout, disassembly video was released showing removal of ram with carrier attached. But the video shows tightening the panhead screw for bottom cover first then two flathead screws for top cover without checking whether priming rod/pin moved up and down freely. I have disassembled and reassembled the press 15 times to verify this and solution is when top/bottom cover screws are tightened, the priming rod/pin must be checked to ensure it moves freely up and down for reliable primer system operation. (If priming rod/pin rubbing/binding is bad enough, primer guide won't freely/fully enter station #2 and could even be bumped by priming rod/pin moving up to lock up shellplate and I already sent Lee an email on this issue) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-8#post-12469014
  • Small/fine granule powders get stuck in the priming rod/pin sleeve to prevent priming rod from moving/affecting shellplate indexing - This problem occurs when small/fine powder granules pour out from bottom of unprimed case. Since SPP has 6 stations, you can move powder charging away from station #2 to minimize/eliminate this issue.
  • Shellplate won't index/locked up - This problem occurred when depriming cases without primers. It seems pre-production/early models had priming rod/pin with sharp end edge that stuck in primer pockets thus locking up shellplate from indexing and this was addressed by rounded priming rod/pin end as illustrated in this post (And I will see if I can get verification on this) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-8#post-12470568
  • Other reported problems not specific to SPP/Pro 6000 kit - There were other issues/problems mentioned but they were not specific to the new press as they were known issues with established DIY/3D printing solutions but new users to Lee press were not familiar with them. (Examples: Penny with spent 22LR case/Cut pex tube inserts for case collator to prevent upside down 9mm brass, 3D printed/DIY spacer block for case feeder body to slide down press frame body, etc.)
I pre-ordered and was to receive one of pre-production Pro 6000 kits but when Lee found crack in one of pre-production "dent and scratch" press base, I was offered to wait for production kit which I chose. And my press came with already updated parts such as primer slider with black hold down, bottom carrier cover with triangle cutout, rounded priming rod/pin with longer spring and may explain why I did not experience same issues/problems other users experienced who received pre/early production presses with 3D printed/pre-production parts that got replaced.

I did have very slight primer slider spring end contact with hold down tabs but a little squeeze with pliers solved that issue as it was never an actual problem.

So @ManFromMontana, if you are thinking about buying the SPP/Pro 6000 kit, you will likely receive current production model with updated parts like longer primer slider without the black hold down, updated carrier bottom cover with triangle cutout/rounded priming pin tip with longer spring, etc. and likely won't experience posted issues/problems that happened with pre/early production presses.

I will continue to stress test my press to identify anymore issues and resolution options (I already cycled the ram/shellplate at two indexings per second for 20 cycles without indexing issues and nobody should be reloading at that cyclic rate).

And I will keep everyone posted on beta testing of new inline bullet feeder/rotary magazine due to arrive any day (Target date to market January of 2023 per Calvin) along with stepped "M" style powder through expander under R&D (Calvin asked for some clarification/modification of initial expander profile for test samples and I already provided feedback so looking forward to testing them also soon).
 
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Tilos said:
Posted before
This works for me on the Pro 1000 because I hate leaving primers in the press and can run the last few out without adding more.
Its a chip clip, skewer, and a piece of thin metal shaped angle:
View attachment 1117025
Wood skewer to avoid sparks...
Might tape something to the skewer for more weight next time I need it.
Hey, maybe a fishing weight (sinker). :uhoh:
:D
.
Click to expand...
Yes....I saw that. But I didn't understand until I got my 6000 together and mounted. You don't need much weight....my thought is to make an offset pivot so the heavy end gravitates down......may fail but I'm going to give it a 3D printed shot.....
 
GW Staar said:
You don't need much weight....my thought is to make an offset pivot so the heavy end gravitates down......may fail but I'm going to give it a 3D printed shot.....
Click to expand...

With new found interest in 3D printing, can't wait to see it.

I just pull tray off and push them down a small cable tie or push them all back into tray when a bunch are left.

GD
 
NOTE: Listing of step-by-step press set up, operation, enhanced practice for greater consistency and troubleshooting on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-12#post-12476131
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Continuing with post #256 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-11#post-12472528
LiveLife said:
So I put on my "troubleshooting" hat ... did some initial investigating/root-cause-analysis.
Click to expand...
Problems - Doing more deeper digging, I am seeing when users post videos of press disassembly, they are removing the top press head and/or shellplate carrier core.

I can see several issues that could arise from these done improperly:
  • After Lee released ABLP/Pro 4000, some users also removed top press head and complaints of shellplate to die opening alignment issue and related problems started to surface. As we have already discussed in previous threads, even on other progressive presses like Dillon, etc., misalignment of shellplate to die opening can cause shellplate index hesitation as case mouth engages the die opening/carbide ring radius. (Won't affect priming because primer position is centered on top of priming rod/pin with shellplate captivated with index pin through holes in shellplate unless primer guide does not enter station #2 fully)
  • And if case cannot move/slide to align with the die opening, case can enter the die tilted to produce slight curving of case/one sided scrape mark.
  • Misalignment of shellplate to die/top press head could affect resizing of brass, case mouth flare, bullet seating/crimp operations to produce finished rounds that are out-of-spec.
  • I haven't needed to remove my shellplate carrier core so haven't verified what problems could arise by not seating the core fully down on the ram or core getting loose because it was not properly torqued down to 40 ft/lb using a torque wrench.
Removal of top shellplate carrier cover doesn't require removing top press head because back of top carrier cover could tip up and moved out between frame columns with primer tray removed - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ing-for-oal-consistency.911743/#post-12443441

Even to replace bottom carrier cover doesn't require un-torquing carrier core from ram as shown by video released by Lee Precision where ram linkage is undone to pull ram with carrier core attached up (But do check free movement of priming rod/pin before tightening the top/bottom cover screws).

Solutions - But if you must remove top press head and/or the carrier core for some reason, I would do the following:
  • Whenever top press head is removed, before tightening the three 1/4" hex bolts, I would insert cases into dies to ensure shellplate/case alignment to dies.
  • Whenever carrier core is removed from ram, I would ensure core is seated fully back on the ram and torque the hex set bolt to 40 ft/lb specified by Lee Precision for ABLP.
 
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NOTE: Listing of step-by-step press set up, operation, enhanced practice for greater consistency and troubleshooting on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-12#post-12476131
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Continuing with post #259 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-11#post-12472838

Problem: Powder spilling on top of priming rod/pin sleeve - Doing more deeper digging and noticed that many who posted issues with powder going down the priming rod/pin sleeve is the result of powder charging at station #2.

But why when Lee Precision gave us six (6) stations?

I think many users of SPP/Pro 6000 initially set up dies with carryover notion of 3/4 station presses where dies were sequenced without gaps. So following this "notion" of die set up, since station #1 was used for resizing/depriming, station #2 may have been selected for powder charging by habit. What this does is create a condition where unprimed case or powder spillage can pour down the priming rod/pin sleeve and this is a preventable or self-induced problem.

index.php


Solution: Powder charge away from station #2 - When I initially set up my press to test finished OAL consistency using powder funnel adapter (To eliminate a reloading variable), I selected station #5 for case flare/powder charge (White bushing in picture) and station #6 for bullet seat/taper crimp (Blue bushing in picture) as due to offset ram under station #1 design of SPP (Same for ABLP/Pro 1000), I wanted to take full advantage of minimizing shellplate tilt/deflection affect variance by placing bullet seating station #6 right next to resizing at station #1 (Red bushing in picture). If I was seating and crimping in separate steps, I would seat at station #5 and crimp at station #6.

Since priming is done at station #2, moving powder charging to other stations will eliminate unprimed cases, even powder spillage, from pouring powder granules down the priming rod/pin sleeve. ;) (And if you want to utilize station #2, you could do stepped "M" style expanding of case mouth/neck, for example)

And another benefit of waiting til station #4 or #5 to powder charge case is less chance for powder to spill out of case. Stations #4/#5 accessible from left side also allows placement of bullet as charged case indexes but before snapping into station to spill powder.
 
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LiveLife said:
Solutions - But if you must remove top press head and/or the carrier core for some reason, I would do the following:
  • Whenever carrier core is removed from ram, I would ensure core is seated fully back on the ram and torque the hex set bolt to 40 ft/lb specified by Lee Precision for ABLP.
Click to expand...
So the linkage has pins which go into holes at the bottom of the ram.

How does one hold ram in proper position when torqueing the hex set bolt since enough pressure must be exerted to expand the "fingers" a little before it will stay locked on core enough to finish the torqueing and be sure the core is in proper position also? (Over thinking this one?)

LiveLife said:
Solution: Powder charge away from station #2.
Click to expand...

So this is not possible for me using all six stations. Using 5 now and with pending Lee bullet feeder I will be filled up. (I will just have be sure do not fill an unprimed case with powder, has not happened yet.)

Thanks

GD
 
GW Staar said:
I've got an idea to make a pusher just for the last three that can be placed on the chute.....but it's still a pain to have to watch for the last 3. I'll post it if it succeeds.
Click to expand...
Waiting with bated breath to see which solution works out.

Mine will also stop feeding right at the last 3 primers (LPP)

Loading .45ACP cases in the tubes that came in the Six Pack Pro, I'm getting 22 cases in each tube...which leaves me 12 primers in the chute. If I was OCD, I'd fill a tube halfway and stop when the last case falls on the rail :p
 
NOTE: Listing of step-by-step press set up, operation, enhanced practice for greater consistency and troubleshooting on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-12#post-12476131
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9mmepiphany said:
LiveLife said:
And if you want to utilize station #2, you could do stepped "M" style expanding of case mouth/neck
Click to expand...
That is what I have done while awaiting Lee's stepped exander insert for the Autodrum
Click to expand...
Nice. :thumbup:

9mmepiphany said:
GW Staar said:
last three primers won't feed to the shuttle, but that's because the slope runs out at the bottom and there's no stack behind them to push them.
Click to expand...
Mine will also stop feeding right at the last 3 primers (LPP)
Click to expand...
That's been my experience as well - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ing-for-oal-consistency.911743/#post-12443415
LiveLife said:
Minimum number of primers in chute required - Primer chute/trough fed CCI SP primers reliably until there were three (3) left.
Click to expand...

If you look at the bottom of primer chute/trough, it needs to curve flat so primer guide sliding back and forth will readily pick up a primer. Any sharper angle of chute and primer to guide alignment will be off for smooth pick up. But as some members have done, a weighted piece inserted into the slot may push the remaining primers down to the last one.

index.php
 
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NOTE: Listing of step-by-step press set up, operation, enhanced practice for greater consistency and troubleshooting on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-12#post-12476131
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Gillie Dog said:
So the linkage has pins which go into holes at the bottom of the ram.

How does one hold ram in proper position when torqueing the hex set bolt since enough pressure must be exerted to expand the "fingers" a little before it will stay locked on core enough to finish the torqueing and be sure the core is in proper position also?
Click to expand...
I wonder how Lee torqued the ram hex set bolt during assembly?

My guess is to make sure the linkage bolts/nuts are properly tightened and lower the carrier core all the way down to secure with index pin (but not elevated to bend the pin) before torquing down the hex set bolt. (I could ask Calvin at Lee Precision on my next email to him)
 
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LiveLife said:
I wonder how Lee torqued the ram hex set bolt during assembly?
Click to expand...

I would hope they have made a tool/jig they just clamp the two parts in that sets alignment and then tighten the set bolt. Take all of 15 seconds to do the job.

Recommended method to do it in the field would be good information.

GD
 
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9mmepiphany said:
Waiting with bated breath to see which solution works out.

Mine will also stop feeding right at the last 3 primers (LPP)

Loading .45ACP cases in the tubes that came in the Six Pack Pro, I'm getting 22 cases in each tube...which leaves me 12 primers in the chute. If I was OCD, I'd fill a tube halfway and stop when the last case falls on the rail :p
Click to expand...

Finished....will print them in the morning and test.....cross your fingers. ;)

After mods of the original two print files, they actually work....stop gap until I fix the chute or Lee does......showing the working files below....red....green on at the bottom of the post were the originals.
y.jpg x.jpg
Planning on a spring to make just a little tension (rubber band worked better could not find a spring weak enough) and a small bolt and nut pivot. The protrusion on the right of the top part will go into the top slot in the Lee Chute. the idea is to get to the last three.... stick the thing in the slot and it should empty quick and easy......but you do have to watch your primers. Obviously it would be better with a steeper chute and not need this.....but for a stop gap......I'll print them both in about an hour. They are not very big.
 

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Lot of good information, but I see everyone is talking about loading for pistols. Anyone try loading any .223 yet ?

Lee doesn’t make a bullet feed for rifle, just wondering if the new one will be the same. Hate to pay for a mini Mr. Bullet Feeder if Lee will make one for rifle.
 
2 Horse said:
Lot of good information, but I see everyone is talking about loading for pistols. Anyone try loading any .223 yet ?

Lee doesn’t make a bullet feed for rifle, just wondering if the new one will be the same. Hate to pay for a mini Mr. Bullet Feeder if Lee will make one for rifle.
Click to expand...


sort of the same boat, thinking about ordering Mini Mr BF for 6.5 bullets to load grendel, but keep hesitating to see what lee comes up with
 
NOTE: Listing of step-by-step press set up, operation, enhanced practice for greater consistency and troubleshooting on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-12#post-12476131
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2 Horse said:
Lot of good information, but I see everyone is talking about loading for pistols. Anyone try loading any .223 yet ?
Click to expand...
Thanks.

While I primarily reload 9mm/40S&W/45ACP/.223, right now I am focusing on getting 9mm dialed in. I am planning to reload 55 gr FMJ along with RMR 69/75 gr BTHP 3GH soon after testing the new Lee Precision inline bullet feeder - https://www.rmrbullets.com/product-category/rmr-in-house/?filter_cat_1=218

trdjohn said:
2 Horse said:
Lee doesn’t make a bullet feed for rifle, just wondering if the new one will be the same.
Click to expand...
sort of the same boat ... keep hesitating to see what lee comes up with
Click to expand...
Lee Precision just got done doing R&D on an inline bullet feeder with rotary magazine and sending me their pre-production unit for beta testing (Anticipated market release date is January 2023) - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-6#post-12466560

They are initially sending die for 9mm but anticipate availability of dies for most pistol and rifle calibers.

I suggested Lee Precision consider offering stepped "M" style powder through expander to help prevent bullet tilt during bullet feeding/seating operation with the new inline bullet feeder at the request of many members and John Lee immediately committed to R&D. Calvin from Lee Precision already has sample made and we exchanged product enhancement ideas to work with jacketed/plated and lubed/coated lead bullets. Calvin will be sending me pre-production samples to beta test with the inline bullet feeder soon - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-7#post-12467200
 
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Took longer than I thought .... a minor redesign was necessary, but the concept worked finally....even with the stupid Lee feed spring in the way, I can now feed the last three primers in the stack. I'll be happiest when Lee redesigns so that it feeds all the primers without such a thing. You need to see the video below in full screen or you won't be able to see much.



Didn't show it in the video, but I did prime a few 9mm cases to test Lee's priming ability. Have to say I was impressed with the repeating below flush seating.

.STL print files Attached
 

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GW Staar said:
Have to say I was impressed with the repeating below flush seating.
Click to expand...
I was too.

Ran 150 LPP last night for a match tomorrow and the only bobble I had was when I short stroked when a bullet fell over while entering the seating die. All the other primers (Federal) were seated uniformly below flush.

When I get set up for 9mm, plate just got here today, I'll see how well it seats the Bosnian Ginex SPP
 
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