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Legalities of Carrying at Schools in the PRK.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by El Rojo, Oct 15, 2004.

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  1. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

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    I am doing my student teaching right now and overheard a conversation at the table next to me. I didn't hear the whole conversation, but teacher A I believe was saying something about defending himself. Teacher A would never want to carry at school, but he has to commute about 30-40 miles across some lonely road to get to school. So he was theoretically talking about carrying in the car and parking off campus. Teacher B apparently went through some law enforcement academy back in 1992 and made the statement that after Columbine the feds said you can no longer carry anywhere near schools anymore. I immediately piped in and stated that PRK Penal Code states that CCW holders are exempt from the no guns at school laws. I said that the school might fire you for having a gun, but you technically could. Teacher A stated that he wouldn’t want to carry at school, but he was interested nonetheless. Teacher B continued to disagree with me due to his LEO training in 1992 in Colorado and he was pretty sure after Columbine in 1997 (I corrected him 1999) the feds said no. I then clarified that Teacher A could carry a firearm around in the trunk of his car, but it had to be unloaded. He said what good is that? He was very logical about explaining to me that it would be a major pain in the butt to have to tell the bad guy to stop while he loads up. I told him, exactly. These laws aren't about common sense or protecting your life. They are about control. He asked about what does it take to get your CCW and I explained to him that it varies from state to state and from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. I told him here in Kern County it is pretty easy. He was very interested in the whole thing.

    So I plan on sending him a link to this thread or taking him a print out of it. Aren't I correct in reading my PRK Penal Code and seeing that CCW holders can indeed carry onto school grounds? Forget that you would probably get fired over it. Just theoretically. I know there is a 1000-foot rule floating out there somewhere, but I am pretty sure anyone who lives within that area or is driving through that area is exempt, as well as CCW holders. Help me out with some facts and I will be getting back in touch with this guy. I know he is a typical liberal teacher, but I like the guy and his interest in self-defense and firearms is worth developing, especially here in the PRK. And he won't hold it against me for calling him a liberal! At least I hope not.
     
  2. Topgun

    Topgun member

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    My personal CCW is "noted" to prohibit carrying within 1000 ft of a school. I would imagine that the law by itself does not restrict it as otherwise there would be no reason to make notation separately on the license.

    Mine is Sacramento.

    Also noted is places where alcohol is served.

    Hmmmmm.....a bartender's school??????????

    :confused:
     
  3. esheato

    esheato Member

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    I have a CCW also, but I am up in Marysville (Yuba County). I have no notations on my permit, and as far as I understand, the no-weapons law doesn't apply to permit-holders.

    Either way, I never worry about it. It's concealed and I'm completely within my right to be carrying a weapon as I'm licensed.

    The only reference I have is a "California Firearms Laws" book for the year of 2003. It's straight from the CA DOJ and has the AGs name on the front of it. I'll assume it's correct. :uhoh:

    FIREARMS ON SCHOOL GROUNDS

    It is unlawful for any person to possess or bring a firearm upon the grounds of, into, or within a distance of 1,000 feet from the grounds of a school providing instruction in kindergarten or grades 1 to 12, inclusive, or a campus of the University of California, California State University, or California community colleges. (Penal Code 626.9)

    EXCEPTIONS

    1. A person who has the written permission of the school district superintendent, designee, or equivalent school authority.
    2. Within a place of residence or place of business or on private property, if the place of residence, place of business, or private property is not part of the school grounds and the posession of the firearm is otherwise lawful.
    3. If the firearm is an unloaded handgun in a locked container or within the locked trunk of a motor vehicle, of if the firearm is a long gun, or the otherwise lawful transportation of an unloaded long gun.
    4. The possession or transportation of firearms by a person who is engaged in the business of manufacturing, importing, wholesaling, repairing, or dealing in firearms and who is licensed to engage in that business or the authorized representative or authorized agent of that person while engaged in the alwful course of business.
    5. Guards or messengers of common carriers, banks, and other financial institutions while actually employed in and about the shipment, transportation, or delivery of money, treasure, etc....
    6. Transportation of unloaded firearms by a person operating a licensed common carrier or an authorized agent or employee thereof when transported in conformance with applicable federal law.
    7. The carrying of unloaded handguns by duly authorized mililtary or civil organizations while parading or the members thereof when going to and from the places of meeting of their respective organizations.
    8. Any peace officer pursuant to Penal Code sections 830 who is carrying out official duties.
    9. Any person summoned by such peace officer to assist in making an arrest of preserving the peace while actually so engaged.
    10. Members of federal or state military forces while engaged in performance of duty.
    11. Any person authorized to carry a concealed firearm pursuant to Penal Code section 12050.
    12. An armored vehicle guard while engaged in performance of duty pursuant to Penal Code section 12030.
    13. An existing shooting range at a public or private school or university or college campus.
    14. An hororably retired peace officer authorized to carry a concealed or loaded firearm.

    By the way, Penal Code 12050 is your basic law allowing shall issue CCW permits.

    LICENSES TO CARRY CONCEALED WEAPONS

    A license to carry a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person may be granted to qualified residents of a county by the sheriff or to qualified residents of a city by the chief or other head of the municipal police department of that city. Such licenses are issued only after a finding that the applicant is of good moral character, that good cause exists for such a license, and the applicant is not prohibited from possessing firearms. Unless otherwise restricted, such a license is valis throughout the state. Such a license may be valid for any amount of time not to exceed two years from the date of issuance, unless issued to a judge or magistrate (valid for up to three years) or specified custodial employees or reserve peace officers (valid for up to four years). (Penal Code 12050.)

    Good on Teacher A to take the responsibility to take care of himself. Tell the other one to get a clue. ;)

    Ed
     
  4. Prof

    Prof Member

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    The issuer of your permit may put limitations on your right to carry. My permit, like Topguns, has a stamped "addendum" on it stating that the permitholder may not carry a firearm on any school grounds, including colleges. As esheato noted, the law permits it (per the exception list) UNLESS your sheriff, etc. specifically prohibits it. :mad:
     
  5. fjolnirsson

    fjolnirsson Member

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    The federal law specifically exempts permit holders.
     
  6. Drjones

    Drjones member

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    I'm sure you've read this here about 1.5 trillion times, but check the laws for yourself.

    I'm a CA resident too and am not sure.

    I believe that there are no firearms on CA schools, PERIOD, CCW or not.

    The obvious exception is if you are one of the govts' minions.
    :rolleyes:


    Basically, check for yourself....
     
  7. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

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    DRJones, no offense my PRK brother, but I don't want to know what you believe, I want to know what you know! And if you read what Esheato posted, that is the PC reference that I read once that says CCW can indeed carry on school grounds. So now the question is what do the feds say about it?

    Well thanks to DRJones' motivation, I found it. 18 USC Sec 922 q

    (q)(1) The Congress finds and declares that -
    (A) crime, particularly crime involving drugs and guns, is a
    pervasive, nationwide problem;
    (B) crime at the local level is exacerbated by the interstate
    movement of drugs, guns, and criminal gangs;
    (C) firearms and ammunition move easily in interstate commerce
    and have been found in increasing numbers in and around schools,
    as documented in numerous hearings in both the Committee on the
    Judiciary (FOOTNOTE 2) the House of Representatives and the
    Committee on the Judiciary of the Senate;
    (FOOTNOTE 2) So in original. Probably should be followed by
    ''of''.
    (D) in fact, even before the sale of a firearm, the gun, its
    component parts, ammunition, and the raw materials from which
    they are made have considerably moved in interstate commerce;
    (E) while criminals freely move from State to State, ordinary
    citizens and foreign visitors may fear to travel to or through
    certain parts of the country due to concern about violent crime
    and gun violence, and parents may decline to send their children
    to school for the same reason;
    (F) the occurrence of violent crime in school zones has
    resulted in a decline in the quality of education in our country;
    (G) this decline in the quality of education has an adverse
    impact on interstate commerce and the foreign commerce of the
    United States;
    (H) States, localities, and school systems find it almost
    impossible to handle gun-related crime by themselves - even
    States, localities, and school systems that have made strong
    efforts to prevent, detect, and punish gun-related crime find
    their efforts unavailing due in part to the failure or inability
    of other States or localities to take strong measures; and
    (I) the Congress has the power, under the interstate commerce
    clause and other provisions of the Constitution, to enact
    measures to ensure the integrity and safety of the Nation's
    schools by enactment of this subsection.
    (2)(A) It shall be unlawful for any individual knowingly to
    possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affects
    interstate or foreign commerce at a place that the individual
    knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is a school zone.
    (B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a
    firearm -

    (i) on private property not part of school grounds;
    (ii) if the individual possessing the firearm is licensed to do
    so by the State in which the school zone is located or a
    political subdivision of the State, and the law of the State or
    political subdivision requires that, before an individual obtains
    such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or
    political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified
    under law to receive the license;

    (iii) that is -
    (I) not loaded; and
    (II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is
    on a motor vehicle;
    (iv) by an individual for use in a program approved by a school
    in the school zone;
    (v) by an individual in accordance with a contract entered into
    between a school in the school zone and the individual or an
    employer of the individual;
    (vi) by a law enforcement officer acting in his or her official
    capacity; or
    (vii) that is unloaded and is possessed by an individual while
    traversing school premises for the purpose of gaining access to
    public or private lands open to hunting, if the entry on school
    premises is authorized by school authorities.

    It is interesting to note that you can have a locked up firearm in your vehicle in the school zone. I also find it very sneaky how Congress went about this by saying, "...possess a firearm that has moved in or that otherwise affect interstate or foreign commerce..." Very clever way of forcing your will upon the people. At least there are enough holes in this one to make it swiss cheese.

    So there we have it, a CCW can carry at schools. Unfortunately, some PRK permits have it listed on there as a condition. That sucks. I wonder if you could go ask the sheriff to take that off of there? Tell them, "Kern County doesn't have this? Why are we more backwards than Kern County." That should work like a charm.
     
  8. dave3006

    dave3006 member

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    I have a CCW. My son is in 6th grade, my daughter is in 4th. I carry every single time I go there to pick them up. I carry to school plays, recitals, assemblies. I carry to parent teacher conferences. I carry to back to school night. I use a Bladetech IWB with my Glock 27 and an untucked polo type shirt. No one has a clue I am carrying.

    Recently, it was reported that Chechen terrorists have crossed the border into California. Separately, California schools were warned to be aware of a terrorist incident.

    It is a real possibility. Be prepared.

    Dave
    Mission Viejo, CA
     
  9. Rumpled

    Rumpled Member

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    dave3006
    I'm curious, how did you get a CCW in OC - I'm in So OC also. I know Corona has loosened things up, but it looks like it still takes a lot of hoops. I'm a normal guy ie I don't own a bidness or carry lots of $$$.
    Is there any chance?
    If you have any tips, I'd appreciate it.
    (PS What is Corona's contribution address?)
     
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