Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Balrog, Oct 6, 2019.
But then there is also the question of the "best" brand" of ammo?
Maybe this will help?
I saw an episode of one of those tv shows with Larry Vickers where they built stud walls with drywall (sheet, 2x4, sheet) spaced about 12’ apart to mimic common room dimensions and 55gr fmj was fragmented by the first wall and very little exited whereas a simple 9mm HP packed with drywall at first contact, went through all walls and exited the siding. If you live alone, don’t have neighbors, use whatever you like or have a magazine of each.
If you dug around in my bulk ammo boxes you’d surely find some tipped Barnes and Sierra lightweights in there, some of it loaded and stored during the “shortage” with various powders I experimented with when a solid supply of my go-to seemed months or years away. I still prefer my soft points because they’re cheap enough.
I wouldn’t but then again you wouldn’t be the one to set the limits. What if someone shot at you from 1200 yards, tell them “time out” until you can close the distance to 150?
My press doesn’t print a label for the ammo it makes.
Your rifle will tell you which load it prefers. Try a few.
My experience with M193 goes back 50 years. It got the job done then.
As briansmithwins noted, if you're concerned about overpenetration, you might be better off with your varmint load than with M193. The 55 gr FMJs are more heavily constructed than many varmint bullets.
I don't think they are likely to be able to see me at 1200 yards, but they could at 150. I was sort of thinking, prepare for what is possible, and then hope that it never happens.
IMO if your getting engaged at outside if speaking distance, it's not an accident. I find it very unlikely you'll get to respond in kind, and if so, actually findin, and identifying your target would likely be much harder than putting rounds on them.
I don't think it matters all that much.. If you have to shoot at someone, the caliber or type of ammo is not going to make much difference. If you miss the projectile will likely go thru multiple sheets of drywall with ease. With any serious round if you get a solid hit, it will likely take down the miscreant. No guarantees but the important thing IMO to worry about is hitting what you are aiming at and not obsessing over relatively minor details.
Hornady 55gr GMX
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this before; however, what anyone uses for home defense needs to consider how close they live to their neighbors.
We live in the Chattahoochee NF and our nearest neighbor is about a mile through a thick forest. Or I could shoot just about anything short of Ma Deuce without a shot after risk. Folks who live in urban or suburban areas need to consider their neighbors.
Let us be honest; if you were watching TV and a few rounds went flying through your house what would you do?
It's not a "reloading" question
My rifle is not have voice recognition nor Synchronized to Alexia so can not "tell" me what she likes.
Which is why you have to try a few.............
Never had rounds fly through the house but I have had real close gun shots, sirens, streets getting cordoned off by cruisers, and police choppers shining spotlights into neighborhood yards. It was an urban neighborhood composed of single family homes on 1/4 acre lots, not a large ranch as OP. But here's what I did after I noticed the bird circling my block multiple times followed up by gunfire a few minutes later:
A. Hit deck and make sure other occupants do the same, preferably in room furthest from gunfire
B. Retrieve rifle and cautiously secure doors and windows
C. Clear fenced back yard so I can tell cops I already checked if/when they knock and refuse a warrantless search of my yard
An AR or AK pistol with the brace or a carbine, a red dot, and a light is pretty much ideal for that. Also, if someone is shooting from 100-150 yards they have already missed you so hit the deck, get your weapon and your phone, call the law, and either maneuver to safety or maneuver to return fire if safe evasion isn't possible. A house (stick frame and concrete block) isn't good cover if someone is shooting using a rifle so that may force engagement depending on the layout of the property. Staying in place inside would give the aggressor a chance to maneuver undetected while you are on the deck. Regardless, have a plan in advance. Sounds like the OP is doing that.
That would work.
That also would work.
You could. But it's not necessary.
If you read the original thread he mentioned, he is out in the sticks.
See video link I posted above
You already have a bunch of M193 so I would get some 55 grain soft point or hollow point that shoots to a similar point of aim.
My department uses Federal TRU 223E 55 grain Sierra Gameking as our rifle round. With good shots it tends to drop guy like they were hit by lightning. We even have a shot at 325 yards with this bullet and it was still effective.
In my experience it fragments early and creates very devastating wounds.
55 grain bullets are plenty for what you need.
Most people live close enough to someone else that the range of even relatively low powered rounds like 9 mm would be able to get to a neighbor.
IMO, while M193 will work... there have been numerous improvements made to bullets since the adoption of 55gr FMJ.
Newer bullet designs are far less yaw dependent ( like the M193 ) .. and are more consistent performers.
I stand by my Gold Dot recommendation in your other thread.
The 55gr version should be a good choice for shorter barrels.
Also newer designed bullets, like the Sierra TMK and Game Changer bullets have been designed to not depend on yaw for expansion.
As an example, Consider SP bullets... they are a standard for hunting. And have culled many critters.
I consider 75gr / 77gr OTM / HP to be great performers for thin skinned targets... but they are also more yaw dependent, and perform poorly against harder targets.
I always trust the most scientific testing by people who have been doing this a while. DocGKR is the most publicly accessible expert and maintains lists of suggested duty ammo for handguns and 5.56 rifles. Duty ammo is as applicable to HD because it has good terminal ballistics, good accuracy, is reliable, and doesn't overpenetrate (police are as fearful of lawsuits as you are).
Here's the 5.56 thread that I believe he revisits and edits periodically to keep up top date:
But also, lots of other good tips, warnings, rants and he even leads with saying the ammo is not so critical as having a good gun and knowing how to shoot it, as several above have said.
I am firmly in the camp of worrying less about my ammo and practicing more. The only bullet that counts is the one that hits the intended target.
The M193 has a long track record as being a effective cartridge. There are a lot of tests and documentation on the penetration of various .223 and 5.56 cartridges. With the current rock bottom prices on ammunition for the same amount of money I rather buy more M193 than fewer heavier more expensive rounds.
As we live in a NF forest where our nearest neighbor is about a mile; we aren't most people. OTOH, as our neighbors are bears, bobcats and cougars; we face different issues.
As Vietnam ex-infantry, your statement about the M193 can't be disputed. Both the Russians and the Chicoms complained to the International Red Cross about the M193; no one can deny it is decent stuff.
.223 JHP in a Wylde chamber is pretty wicked too.
Any 223 load you choose will have the same energy at the muzzle as a 44 Mag revolver, and you don't see many people being picky about SD bullets with their 44s. Put me in the "anything but FMJ" camp.
I think I will just stick with M193 for my purposes. I am concerned the varmi
So what is wrong with M193? FMJ 223 ammo behaves differently than FMJ pistol ammo, since it fragments and dumps huge amounts of energy in tissue, right?
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