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Lethal force against attempt at disarm

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Carbonator, Feb 24, 2011.

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  1. Carbonator

    Carbonator Member

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    I posted a thread 3 months ago about the use of lethal force against a person to prevent that person from disarming a CCWer of his own gun:
    http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=558930&highlight=

    I just saw a video on Youtube where a guy states: (03:29)
    "The Supreme Court has deemed that if somebody attempts to disarm you, that is lethal force authorized because it is already presumed that if they get your weapon from you, they are going to use it against you."
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ToJSAkz8R8

    More specifically, the guy in the video states that he would use another weapon (his knife) against someone trying to disarm him of his gun.

    Does anyone have details about this Supreme Court ruling? Date of ruling, federal/state court, case title etc...
     
  2. 4sooth

    4sooth Member

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    In Louisiana an attempt to disarm a police officer will usually result in attempted second degree murder charges. I see no reason why it should not be the same for an attempt to disarm any lawfully armed person.
     
  3. Hypnogator

    Hypnogator Member

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    I call BS on this one. I teach judgmental use of force, and am aware of no such decision. However, it is logical, and a defense based on this logic would possibly prevail.
     
  4. bigfatdave

    bigfatdave Member

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    [Citation Needed]
     
  5. dayid

    dayid Member

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    In my state, you may shoot for aggravated battery and aggravated assault. Attempting to disarm me will most likely result in both.

    I've found no court cases (not even non-supreme court cases) in my precursory search that cover this directly.

    You can be sure that if someone is attempting to steal anything from me, they will most likely meet my firearm. While (in my state) that is not justification to shoot - it is justification to detain them until authorities arrive.
     
  6. USAF_Vet

    USAF_Vet Member

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    dayid, which state is that if you don'y mind my asking?
     
  7. smince

    smince Member.

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    That would be my plan as well.
     
  8. Carbonator

    Carbonator Member

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    Does this ruling (if it exists) apply to police officers only or CCW citizens as well? I believe the guy in the video was an officer.

    A persecuting attorney could make the argument that because I was able to draw my weapon and shoot the offender, I had control and possession of the gun at that exact moment, and therefore the offender was not disarming me.

    Attempt to disarm could also fall into the category of attempted robbery (robbing you of your gun), assault and/or attempted assault (physical contact), which in some states can be met with lethal force.
     
  9. dayid

    dayid Member

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    Florida considers both aggravated assault and aggravated battery to be forcible felonies. Any forcible felony in FL is justifiable grounds to use deadly force. It is in other states as well - but I am not up to date with all other states definition of forcible felony, standing ground, nor their deadly force doctrines.

    So, to clarify: attempting to rob (out in public) is not a forcible felony (without assault and/or battery - which most likely will occur during the robbery). The drawing of a weapon in Florida is not deadly force. Thus - if I hold you at gunpoint while waiting for police to arrive - I am not using deadly force. Now, if you decide to call my bluff and stand up and run - I still cannot shoot - but I do not know many people that would tape that risk. If (the person assaulting me and robbing me) were found completely innocent - I may be tried for false imprisonment - but not for the use of deadly force - since no deadly force was used.

    Someone trying to steal my firearm from me is definitely a situation where I'd be more than happy to risk being on trial for false imprisonment than being dead. I still have some faith in the court systems and believe any reasonable jury of my peers would hold the same decision.
     
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