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Lethal shooting in Salt Lake City, UT; CCW holder was the shooter

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by jeepin_junkie, Jul 9, 2008.

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  1. jeepin_junkie

    jeepin_junkie Member

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  2. divemedic

    divemedic Member

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  3. James T Thomas

    James T Thomas Member

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    murderer is as murder does

    Must wait for more information to make sense of initial reports.

    Note: to myself!
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
  4. NukemJim

    NukemJim Member

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    From 1st link

    I cannot copy the article from the 2nd link.

    If there is a CompuGeek (I wish I was a Compugeek) who can help it would be greatly appreciated.

    NukemJim
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2008
  5. La Pistoletta

    La Pistoletta Member

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  6. MD_Willington

    MD_Willington Member

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    Sounds like "Gentle Ben Holland" would just rather roll over and die and figures everyone should too... :rolleyes:
     
  7. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Note to self: be sure to shoot non-violently :rolleyes:
     
  8. wyocarp

    wyocarp Member

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    Maybe even almost smile, but don't smile because then the news will say that you enjoyed shooting someone.
     
  9. ReadyontheRight

    ReadyontheRight Member

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    It sounds to me like this shooter cared very much who he shot. He shot someone who was dangerous to him and other people. And he waited until that person came back and escalated the situation by charging and reaching into his bag.

    I think a more accurate quote would be "People don't seem to care who they provoke or frighten anymore. Maybe this incident of a citizen legally defending himself will start to change that. Thank the Lord for the Second Amendment and our Bill of Rights" said ReadyontheRight, a Minnesota resident who lives far from the incident, but who seems to have a very clear grasp of the obvious.
     
  10. XD Fan

    XD Fan Member

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    I hope for the shooter's sake that he was truly threatened. That would be a tough one to live with if the guy was reaching in his bag for a Snickers. It sounds like he (the shooter) was justifiably concerned for his life, but it would still be hard to deal with psychologically if it turns out that the agressive guy was in no way armed.
     
  11. Rugerlvr

    Rugerlvr Member

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    Seriously, WTH are you guys talking about?
     
  12. MaterDei

    MaterDei Member

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    My prayers go out for both of these guys. Seems like a very justified shooting. Sad nevertheless.
     
  13. Aguila Blanca

    Aguila Blanca Member

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    Why?

    Threatened is threatened.
     
  14. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    Right on.
    Did the guy with the knapsack actually have a weapon? If he did, the shooter is golden. If not, exactly why did CCW guy shoot the knapsack guy? If it's a good reason, then fine. If not, then it will get complicated.
     
  15. Erik

    Erik Member

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    Perhaps because the perception that a weapon was about to be produced? A viable justification, by the way.
     
  16. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    Why is it viable?
    Is it viable in all cases?
    Does one just have to say, "he reached into his knapsack and I thought he had something threatening in there!"

    That would be interesting...I guess I better be careful when reaching into my knapsack, bookbag, briefcase, shopping bag...
     
  17. Rugerlvr

    Rugerlvr Member

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    If you read the comments section of the story on KSL.com, down near the bottom is someone claiming to be the former stepson of the man who was shot. He claims the man has a long rap sheet for violent offenses. I'm gonna say right now that the CCW holder will probably be cleared.
     
  18. Rugerlvr

    Rugerlvr Member

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    FCFC, your devil's advocate thing is really wearing thin.
     
  19. Jimmy Dean

    Jimmy Dean Member

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    FCFC, I think that if you are in the middle of a confrontation, reaching into your bag, pocket, under a jacket, would be considered threatening, this is not just this guy saw someone reach intop a backpack so he shot him, they were in the middle of an altercation from what it looks like
     
  20. fearless leader

    fearless leader Member

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    I was involved in a near shooting of a similar nature. When you draw and fire on an individual who is reaching for an unknown object that you BELIEVE to be a gun, it is called a furtive shooting.
    My BG was wearing a heavy coat in Florida, in AUGUST! He was bald and sweating (he wasn't cold) and he was yelling and threatening me when he stopped and looked left and right, then reached under the coat with his right hand. I drew my pistol and went to a low ready.

    I nearly went to prison!!!

    The news may crucify him, but he is LUCKY he is not up on muder charges!
     
  21. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    Of course, the context already is that there was a confrontation (the full details of which have not been reported, btw).

    So you're saying in such a context, that any reaching into a knapsack, bag, pocket, etc. will be "considered threatening?" And would that be "threatening" enough to justify shooting the reacher?
     
  22. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    Did baldy have a weapon of any kind?
     
  23. Jimmy Dean

    Jimmy Dean Member

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    FCFC, my life is important enough that if I am actively engaged in a fight with another individual, and they reach into their bags, and it appears that they may be intending to escalate the situation, you can guarantee I am going to draw and shoot. I will not risk my life on..."Oh, maybe he decided to give me his card, or his lawyers in the middle of a fight, or maybe he got hungry and remembered he had a snickers in there"...or maybe he realizes that the easiest way for him to win is to draw and shoot. in which case, I have every intention to do so first.
     
  24. FCFC

    FCFC Has Never Owned a Gun

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    Are those legal "yesses" to both questions or personal "yesses?"
     
  25. camslam

    camslam Member

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    These are the comments posted on the local board from the supposed stepson.


    Either way this goes, it is tough taking a human life, it is tough not doing anything to defend yourself or others. Let's all continue to hope we don't have the opportunity to experience an event like this.
     
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