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Let's say the M16/M4 is replaced tomorrow

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by .cheese., Jun 18, 2007.

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  1. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    ... by something manufactured by say, FN (which is looking possible).

    What do you think will happen to Colt considering they've been putting all their eggs in the military basket and cutting down more and more on sales to the civilian sector?

    Just curious.
     
  2. cheygriz

    cheygriz Member

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    First, it isn't going to happen. You can forget it.

    Second, the M-16 and M4 are ALREADY being manufactured by FN at factories in the U.S.

    Colt is history, and unless the management changes their attitude, and joins our side, Ruger is next.
     
  3. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    No, that's not what I'm asking. lol

    I'm asking, do you think Colt would be badly hurt financially by such a thing hypothetically happening, or are they diversified enough to not be shut down by such a move? In other words, how much hedging is going on at Colt?

    I'm thinking they're putting way too many eggs in one basket.
     
  4. BADUNAME13

    BADUNAME13 Member

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    Colt= Next Winchester.
     
  5. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    I don't know the history of Winchester. Could you elaborate?
     
  6. buck00

    buck00 Member

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    Just playing along, taking lobbying, back-door deals, pork-barrel politics, and the military's basic stubborness to change out of the equation.... I would think Colt would want to start selling semi-auto AR's to the public in a hurry.
     
  7. JLelli

    JLelli Member

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    Winchester, for all intents and purposes, is out of business. The name lives on, but as a brand for guns made in Belgium or Japan. The plant in New Haven shut down a year ago.
     
  8. .cheese.

    .cheese. Member

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    I'm surprised this got moved to Rifle Country. It's more about business tactics and business models than actual guns. But ok.
     
  9. LoadedDrum

    LoadedDrum Member

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    I thought Colt still had the M4 contract. I hope that FN gets it however.
     
  10. Outlaws

    Outlaws Member

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    Colt already is. They are still made here, but Colt is just a name owned by a multinational holdings group milking government contracts. There is nothing "American" about buying Colt....literally. Besides, what is the last firearm they had anything to do with designing? Beats me. There was nothing new even with something like the Pythons or the Police Positives. Standard DA revolvers. M16/M4, just a licensed design. No intelligence or creativity there. 1911? That was almost 100 years ago and they didn't even design that either. Oh, the SAA. Gee thanks. So we are going on what, 135 years and nothing new? Sounds like Winchester.

    As for what would happen to Colt if they lost their contract, they would probably attempt to re-enter the civilian market. Hopefully they would fail miserably and go belly up and the name and plant would be sold to someone who gave a flying ****.

    (I realize I probably grossly overstate that whole thing, but seriously, its been a long time since they released anything new. Its not like they have the ATF on their backs. They can build anything they want.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  11. Number 6

    Number 6 Member

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    If Colt lost their military contract I would imagine they would probably start marketing to the civilian market. I remember hearing somewhere that since the state of Connecticut has part ownership of Colt, they would have a say in who they market to. Whether that is true or not I do not know, but if it is true then that might prevent them from marketing to the civilian market.

    It could also be the case that Colt's management would try to ignore the civilian market, and still attempt to market only to the military. There are plenty of companies that have tried that but unless they get some international sales, they would not be able to survive in their current iteration.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2007
  12. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    Colt produces material on a global sale.
    Loss of US military sales would hurt but it wouldn't kill the Company.
     
  13. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    If, say, there was some army-wide or military-wide decision to adopt the FN SCAR in FY 08 (very, very unlikely, even if it gets rave reviews from SOCOM users), I'd look at Colt still managing to wrangle some portion of the contract or otherwise get a piece of the pie through politicking and lobbying.
     
  14. Alphazulu6

    Alphazulu6 member

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    I can 100% guarantee you that it is not going to happen for a long while. The Army is still getting its contract for M4s filled! If they passed the contract today we would see them in use by the regular Army in 2020...maybe, considering that the M4s were issued almost 10 years ago and 70% of the Army is still in line to be filled (my unit included).
    :cuss:
     
  15. Quiet

    Quiet Member

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    The US Military, in general (minus SOF) is married to the M16/M4 system and will not be changing until something that is significantly more advanced comes along.

    Colt and FN both have contracts to provide the M16/M4 system to the US Military.

    That said, US SOCOM is currently taking in it's first shipment of the FN SCAR weapon system. The SCAR-L (Mk16) will be replacing the M-4A1, the Mk 12 Mod 0/1 SPR and the Mk18 CQBR. The SCAR-H (Mk 17) will be replacing the M-14 and the SR-25 (Mk 11).
     
  16. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

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    My friend in the Air Force is a firearms instructor and said that their M4's are made by FN.
     
  17. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    Colt has the M4 contract, but the Air Force apparently builds a lot of their own weapons in house from various components (at least from what I've seen of their M4s), so I don't doubt they have some with FN rollmarked lower receivers.
     
  18. ar10

    ar10 Member

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    If I were the military decision maker, I wouldn't use any of them. I'd get AK's. They're cheap, dependable, and you can use the BG's ammo when you run out.
     
  19. Jeremy2171

    Jeremy2171 Member

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    Good thing you aren't in charge.....apparently you've never seen Iraqi ammo....you want to see an "unjammable" AK jam???? Shoot some Iraqi ammo in it.... LOL

    M16 is fine and works like a charm...don't believe all the Kool-Aid drinkers that say it sucks....
     
  20. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    And as an added bonus, all the controls are in the wrong place for rapid handling, reloading, etc. Add in the short sight radius and it's the finest stab at mediocrity the firearms world has seen in a long time.
     
  21. marksman13

    marksman13 Member

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    Dammit, Horsesoldier, you have a way with words. I am inclined to agree with you that AKs are poorly designed in the ergos department, and accuracy is more than questionable past 200 yards, but they aren't so bad for clearing a house if you don't mind moving with the safety off...which I do mind.(firendly jab at Nomad, 2nd intended:neener::D)

    I don't know that Colt will ever go belly up as long as our firearms laws stay the way they are. There are still people out there who won't buy a 1911 or M16 that doesn't have a pony on it's side. Losing a contract with the US military would hurt them, but I don't think it would be a mortal wound.
     
  22. TX1911fan

    TX1911fan Member

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    Jeremy and Horse, thank you very much. It drives me crazy that anytime there is an M16/AR-15 discussion, we have to hear "just get an AK."
     
  23. Langenator

    Langenator Member

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    As far as 'new' stuff from Colt goes, Colt did submit what was basically a gas piston AR system, with a monolithic rail platform type upper, for it's entry into the SCAR competition that FN ultimately won.

    Although this design was mostly an upgrade of something they started playing with about 40 years ago.
     
  24. doubleg

    doubleg Member

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    IMO what the military should do is..

    Dump the .223 gas operated AR. Then they could dump all of the surplus .223 uppers into the CMP and civilians would buy them and the mags up like hot cakes. That would get rid of the "But theres no money" :rolleyes: excuse used by politicians.

    Then I would replace them all with 6.8 SPC piston driven uppers mounted on the old receivers. Maybe even give the contract to Colt to keep the money in America. This would give the grunts the reliability and extra power they have been whining for. :cool:
     
  25. Jeremy2171

    Jeremy2171 Member

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    "who's whining?"

    No one around here.......
     
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