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Lets see where the THR is on 10mm vs 45 acp - assume you have both

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by CDW4ME, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    Some is, no doubt. But it's far less of an issue than it was 10 years ago. Ammo makers have let speeds creep back up. It wasn't uncommon to see 180s running 1050 fps 10-20 years ago now most if not all of it is over 1200 at least. Now that was some bs back then. I bought 10s of thousands of them simply because they used good brass and I could get them cheaper than I could buy Brass/Bullets and primers. I still use brass I got from Georgia arms and BVAC (before they started using armscorp) 20 +years ago. At the time winchester Silvertips (or talons) or a left over box of norma was the only way to get anything close to a 10mm round without handloading. I dont know if buffalo bore was around back then but I'm almost positive double tap nor Underwood was. Even if they were it was pre internet for the most part and it wasn't in the big cabelas catalogs so I never heard of it.

    The funniest thing about it, and it goes to show how much gossip plays a role in perception, is that even 10-20 years ago I could hand people a little Glock 22 with 180s running 1000fps and a Glock 20 or 29 with 180s running 1000fps and they would talk about how stout a 10mm is and how recoil was worse than their choice of carry. Even though the big fat heavy slide and mass of the gun actually should have tamed the round even further than the 40.

    I like the 10mm as a hunting round. If big thick coats are an issue I might carry the 10mm but I'm just fine with my 40/357sig. I have 9mms, 40s, 357 sig, 10mm and 45. I would feel no less protected with any of them. I have others like 5.7, 25, 380, 22 etc that I do feel is a good bit of a trade off but among the others mentioned I dont think there is a wrong one nor do I think there is enough trade off in any direction to matter
     
  2. Robbins290

    Robbins290 Member

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    I have been trying to supply local stores. they have federal brass case 9mm in 500 round boxes at 90 bucks each, that is pretty close to online prices and i wont have to wait to get delivered. I do order ammo online, but not alot.
     
  3. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    Walmart never had 10mm that I saw. I bought tons of 40 and 9 there over the years though. 22 as well. Many gun stores didnt even have more than a box or two until the last couple years. (Usually american eagle in the stores I visited). 10mm is the very reason I started ordering ammo online. I carried Silvertips back then and bass pro or cabelas (the closest at the time was ONLY 300 miles. Lol. They really didnt have a lot of brick and mortar stores back then). I believe the first of those I ordered was a case from sportsmans guide and they were nearly a dollar a round. The next option back then was hornady custom which they carried in 155, 180, and 200 gr. They were around 14 bucks/per 20 and loaded hotter than 40 but not up to 10mm really. I carried those hunting since I could get them semi-locally. At the same time I could drive to Kmart or walmart (which was nearly 2 hours away back then) and buy 44 magnum cheaper than either and 357 even cheaper. That's much of why the 10mm was considered a niche for folks who handloaded.
     
  4. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    Supporting local businesses when they offer what you want/need is good. But when they don't, you just order online.

    That's not new. Hobbyists in pretty much all specialties/areas of interest have always had to mail order stuff. No brick and mortar gun store can carry all the kinds of ammo a catalog place could in 1975... nor all the kinds of ammo an online retailer can now. No brick and mortar hobby store can carry all the model kits a catalog place could or an internet place can.

    If you're serious about a hobby, you're going to end up doing mail order for some stuff. Buy what you can locally, and then order the rest.
     
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  5. Robbins290

    Robbins290 Member

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    They would supply 10mm if i asked them to. they do have it once and a while. but i never look for it and i never asked for it. I never asked as i did not have much interest in the caliber when i researched it 10 years ago. There is a cabelas that opened up a few years ago. I could get ammo there. but i would rather support a local store before i order from them.

    Now back to the 10mm vs 45 ACP, another reason why i went 45 acp back then was 45 was cheaper then the 10mm. And i shoot alot. between 1000-2000 rounds a month. the cost back then was not worth it for me. I am swtiched over to 40 and 9mm now. I have not shot a 45 in 5 years. nor bought ammo for it.
     
  6. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    As much as I like to bitch about how things are today....I sure am glad we don't have to do that anymore. I'm barely old enough, but I do still remember filling out the order card, enclosing check or money order, and sending them off. Then forgetting I even ordered anything by the time it got here. I try to tell my kids about that. 2 day or even next day shipping is amazing when you remember the common 6-8 weeks or 8-12 weeks that was usually quoted. Some were even 24 weeks. Seems ludicrous now.

    As far as hunting and shooting though. You definately had to plan ahead. A 12 week lead time means you better buy what you need for a while.

    As far as the topic at hand though, there were very few of us shooting 10mm even 5 years ago and I'd guess 90% percent handloaded. But you guys have it pretty good today. No reason to shy away from 10mm for that reason anymore. Especially for big game hunting, the 10mm is IMHO the only semi-auto that is viable, respectably sized, and decently easy to find.
     
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  7. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    If this thread were started 10 years ago my answer at least would have been different. It's a different question today then back then. I'd have certainly said if you don't reload then I'd look at the 45. I get where you are coming from there.
     
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  8. ATLDave

    ATLDave Member

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    It's still a cartridge that really rewards the handloader, both in terms of cost and flexibility.* For people contemplating it as a hunting round, purchased ammo is a totally viable option. For people planning to use it for SD, the level of practice require to get and maintain proficiency is going to make an all-store-bought regimen pretty expensive. If you're serious about it, that is.

    * I think the 10mm is really the .357 of the semi-auto world. Just as a .357 case can be topped with a huge variety of bullet weights and types, and filled with a wide range of powders and powder charges, the 10mm can be run up and down the power spectrum and bullet weight spectrum better than anything else in the semi-auto world. If I had to live with one semi-auto cartridge alone, it would be the 10mm... just because I can make it do anything short of true big game hunting (white tails and hogs aren't "big game") on the top end and down to target 9mm power on the low end. You can't make it a .32 S&W wadcutter, can't make it a .44 mag... but you can cover about 90% of the spectrum between them.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  9. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    Absolutely. That hasnt changed. I just believe that (as much as I have always liked it) 10 years ago it wasnt a great round for the average non-reloader. But I believe that has changed. Anyone who looked into it back when EAA, Glock, Kimber, and Colt were the only guns, and even midwayusa only had 4 or 5 loads for it should really look into it again today.

    That's why as far as the topic of this thread I think the search function would be misleading. A 10 year (or more) old thread would be a different debate. Even my own posts from the past wouldnt really be relevant now. The 45 may have had a lot more in the pro- column than the 10 back then. Now not so much.
     
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  10. Coyote3855

    Coyote3855 Member

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    I have 1911s in .45 ACP including a lightly modified Springfield Armory that I used in IPSC competition for several years and a Glock 20. I recognize the advantages of the 10mm including capacity but would choose the .45 based on my familiarity with the platform.
     
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  11. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    Ammo availability was addressed in the OP.
    In this thread, you already have both pistols and ammo for each.

    Type of ammo is not specified, it could be Underwood, Double Tap, Federal, Hornady, or a handload; that detail was left open.
    I reload (handload is more accurate - 100% accurate related to 10mm), and probably wouldn't have much interest in 10mm if I didn't, but that is irrelevant.
     
  12. ugaarguy

    ugaarguy Moderator Staff Member

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    I'd be surprised if you don't shoot the 21 slightly faster with equal accuracy, given .45 ACP's generally milder recoil relative to 10mm. But you may not shoot it faster enough to matter. If I had my favorite SD ammo for both, terminal ballistics, based on standardized gel testing, would be equal. So, the question really is, do you want 2 more shots per mag at the cost of more recoil, flash, and blast? I'll take 14 shots per mag with less flash, blast, and recoil. But I'd just as gladly take the 10mm if you told I couldn't have the 45.

    Well, it really doesn't make a difference. 32/33 rounds of 10mm vs 28/29 rounds of 45 ACP, out of otherwise identical handguns, is an insignificant debate. With decent ammo for either you have a tool that's more than adequate for SD against humans. Now, if we're clearing feral hogs out of a peanut field in South GA, I'll take the 10mm with 200 gr. hard cast bullets loaded up to full 10mm velocity.
     
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  13. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    That right there.
    I've shot both with carry ammo and the difference in follow up shot time is insignificant like .03
    I like both pistols and both calibers. Its nice to have options.
     
  14. mcb

    mcb Member

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    So there is a fair amount of energy difference between the two. Most full power 45 ACP is just short of 500 ft-bs of muzzle energy and most full power 10mm Auto is around 700 ft-lbs. But when you look at the power factor (recoil ignoring the propellent) there is not that much difference.

    A 45 ACP 230gr bullet at 960 fps is 470 ft-lbs and a PF of 221
    A 10mm Auto 180gr bullet at 1300 fps is 675 ft-lbs and a PF of 234

    So the 10mm auto has 44% more muzzle energy but only about 6% more recoil impulse using my two example loads. I would think in equal weight guns that fit the user well the 10mm is not going to be much harder to control. Assuming I didn't fat finger my calculator...
     
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  15. herrwalther

    herrwalther Member

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    If I had both, I would carry both. Just not at the same time. There are times when 10mm is desirable such as winter anywhere north of say Maryland. Or when 45ACP supply runs dry and you have 10mm stocked up. 10mm has quite a bit more versatility to a handloader so that can play into the factoring as well.
     
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  16. CDW4ME

    CDW4ME Member

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    Here are calculations with 1911's and some of the ammo I have:
    2.5# firearm weight for 1911
    Actual power charge for 10mm handloads, 45 acp estimated from AA manual

    10mm Handload 180 Nosler @ 1,228 fps / 603# KE - recoil energy 9.2 - PF 221
    10mm Handload Nosler 150 JHP @ 1,402 fps / 655# KE - recoil energy 9.4 - PF 210

    45 acp Winchester 230 Ranger T @ 915 fps / 428# KE - recoil energy 8.2 - PF 210
    45 acp Remington Golden Saber 185 +P @ 1,157 fps / 550# KE - recoil energy 9.0 - PF 214

    I said before that 10mm was about like 45 acp 185 Golden Saber +P there is a calculation that supports my opinion.
     
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