Here's my issue. I put a new Leupold VX-3i 3.5-10X on my new Sako FinnFire II 17HMR. Zeroed it at 50 yds at 10X. Went squirrel hunting last week and killed 3 squirrels, all head shots. All good so far. But, when I have it on 10X and the shot is around 40-50 yds, the view is ever so slightly fuzzy. If I have it at, say, 8X with a 50 yard shot, the view is clear. The fuzzy is so slight that I didn't really notice it much at the range shooting a blank paper target. Figured it was just my old eyes. But, looking at something with texture like leaves and squirrels, the fuzzy is noticeable, especially if I back it off to 8X. I've adjusted the rear focus, but it won't quite eliminate the fuzz...almost, but not quite. Again, at 8X, the focus is crystal clear; my old eyes see the target clearly. Do I have a problem scope?
Leupold fuzzy focus?
- Thread starter Sniper66
- Start date
- Status
cdb1
Member
Parallax?
Skylerbone
Member
In a word, no. Your scope is not designed to focus at that distance and magnification. Leupold offers E.F.R. (Extended Focal Range) scopes with adjustable objective if you need one for close distance but I just confirmed with my 3-9 Leupold and an old Tasco World Class that neither are especially clear at 9X at that distance.
I spent many years with an AO on my squirrel rifle but much prefer a non-AO for quick shots. I think you'll find that with the clarity of your Leupold you simply won't need all that magnification in the field to produce head shots.
I spent many years with an AO on my squirrel rifle but much prefer a non-AO for quick shots. I think you'll find that with the clarity of your Leupold you simply won't need all that magnification in the field to produce head shots.
Here's the thing. i realize that 10X is not made for shorter distances; I get that, I neglected to mention in my OP that I have the older version of this scope, the VX-3, and it gets fuzzy on 10X too, but not until it gets really close where you wouldn't want 10X. That is a parallax issue, which I understand. The thing is I don't think that should happen at 50-60 yards. Should it? My VX-3 does not; it is mounted on my favorite prairie dog rifle and is really clear at 50-60 yds. I guess I'm reluctant to admit that I made the wrong scope choice for a squirrel rifle. I have 2 other squirrel rifles with no scope problems........a Leupold VX-II 2-7X and a Bushnell Elite 4-16X AO. The AO feature on the Bushnell solves the parallax problem. Drat! I hate to think about changing scopes.
Skylerbone
Member
Actually what you have described is a focal range issue. Parallax is simply a phenomenon wherein objects are not coplanar. Your new scope is fixed for a specific yardage such that parallax cannot be corrected for each shot, at least not with any degree of practicality.
Focus on a scope refers to the eye piece and its adjustment to your eye of the crosshairs. You will need to follow the proceedure for that no matter the scope. This will only focus the crosshairs and will not change the focal range of the scope. If you are familiar with the subject of macro photography the second part will make more sense and why specialty lenses are used for close-ups.
Returning to your issue, grab any of your fixed parallax scopes and (clear the rifle if mounted) aim it across a small room. If the scope has magnification it will at some point become fuzzy as the target moves closer. For an easier way to test this, dial up 10X and carefully place a quarter (or a piece of paper roughly that size) on the objective lens. Your scope will simply look "past" it.
To the question of whether you chose the wrong scope, that depends on if your intention was to dial up 10X for shots at 40 yards consistently. The secondary question goes back to parallax, assuming yours is set at 100 yds. If the majority of your intended shots will be significantly closer, then you should consider resetting the parallax for your expected distance. That won't fix your focus issue but will decrease potential parallax errors in sighting. You can find information about performing this proceedure yourself and saving the $25 flight home to Leupold. I sympathize with your belief that it ought to be able to focus closer than it does, and I realize some do, but these are design and engineering decisions that dictate focal range.
Focus on a scope refers to the eye piece and its adjustment to your eye of the crosshairs. You will need to follow the proceedure for that no matter the scope. This will only focus the crosshairs and will not change the focal range of the scope. If you are familiar with the subject of macro photography the second part will make more sense and why specialty lenses are used for close-ups.
Returning to your issue, grab any of your fixed parallax scopes and (clear the rifle if mounted) aim it across a small room. If the scope has magnification it will at some point become fuzzy as the target moves closer. For an easier way to test this, dial up 10X and carefully place a quarter (or a piece of paper roughly that size) on the objective lens. Your scope will simply look "past" it.
To the question of whether you chose the wrong scope, that depends on if your intention was to dial up 10X for shots at 40 yards consistently. The secondary question goes back to parallax, assuming yours is set at 100 yds. If the majority of your intended shots will be significantly closer, then you should consider resetting the parallax for your expected distance. That won't fix your focus issue but will decrease potential parallax errors in sighting. You can find information about performing this proceedure yourself and saving the $25 flight home to Leupold. I sympathize with your belief that it ought to be able to focus closer than it does, and I realize some do, but these are design and engineering decisions that dictate focal range.
Last edited:
Skylerbone, Thanks for the informative email. I have to admit that I do not understand all I know about parallax vs. focus. What I do know is that this scope did not serve me in the squirrel woods as well as others I have now or have had in the past. Everyone has a style of hunting squirrels....some like to stalk and plink squirrels out of the tops of trees they are standing under or sit and wait for squirrels to emerge both near and far. I do both depending on mood and circumstance, so I need a flexible scope to accommodate the infinite variety of shooting options. The Bushnell Elite 4-16X AO does that better than others and I'm thinking about changing out the Leupold for another Bushnell__never thought I would say that! Since I'm shopping for a Tikka .243, the Leupold might be perfect for it. A man can always use another rifle, eh?
Skylerbone
Member
That he can and he'd be hard pressed for a better shooter than a Tikka!
I know its top end is 9X but Leupold's 3-9X33 EFR with AO is a really nice built-for-rimfire option that focuses to 7 yds. Another would be a Clearidge, by tell of many RFC (a rimfire specific forum) members who swear by them and know good glass from so-so. The Leupold is hovering around $300 at present, the Clearidge at $230 and up depending on model.
I've spent the past few days hemming and hawing on which to order for my daughter's 452 though at age 10 she's still plinking with her pink Savage Rascal. I believe Leupold also makes an X12 or X14 EFR as well, though I couldn't tell you if it would compete dollar wise with the Bushnell.
I wish you luck in finding a use for your scope and finding a better option for the squirrel laser.
I know its top end is 9X but Leupold's 3-9X33 EFR with AO is a really nice built-for-rimfire option that focuses to 7 yds. Another would be a Clearidge, by tell of many RFC (a rimfire specific forum) members who swear by them and know good glass from so-so. The Leupold is hovering around $300 at present, the Clearidge at $230 and up depending on model.
I've spent the past few days hemming and hawing on which to order for my daughter's 452 though at age 10 she's still plinking with her pink Savage Rascal. I believe Leupold also makes an X12 or X14 EFR as well, though I couldn't tell you if it would compete dollar wise with the Bushnell.
I wish you luck in finding a use for your scope and finding a better option for the squirrel laser.
Skylerbone
Member
Just a quick pic to show parallax in action. Unfortunately I don't have a second perspective to show the perceived shift in barrel position but I can assure you it will move both left and right of the crosshairs depending on eye position. Because it is visible, I attempt to align the crosshairs and barrel with every shot to eliminate parallax affects. I purchased the same scope for a Henry lever action and do the same for distances under 100 yds.
This is a Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4X at 10yds atop my pellet rifle. The portion of the barrel visible within the scope is circled and I drew an approximation of the barrel's centerline.
Here is the original picture which also illustrates the barrel being too close for the scope to resolve (focus on).
I couldn't tell you which factors are at play here but this is 5 shots (.177 cal.) at that target, 10yds.
This is a Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4X at 10yds atop my pellet rifle. The portion of the barrel visible within the scope is circled and I drew an approximation of the barrel's centerline.
Here is the original picture which also illustrates the barrel being too close for the scope to resolve (focus on).
I couldn't tell you which factors are at play here but this is 5 shots (.177 cal.) at that target, 10yds.
I love the vx-3/vx-3i and have them on multiple rifles. But not on my .17HMR.
On my 17HMR I have the scope skylerbone menimtioned, the Leupold 3-9x33 EFR with adjustable objective. It even has CDS which is a bit optimistic with 17HMR, but I've used it and it works when zeroed at 100 and dialing to 200.
On my 17HMR I have the scope skylerbone menimtioned, the Leupold 3-9x33 EFR with adjustable objective. It even has CDS which is a bit optimistic with 17HMR, but I've used it and it works when zeroed at 100 and dialing to 200.
I don't see this as a problem. Either don't go above 8X at ranges under 100 yards or live with a slightly out of focus view. I'm sure it isn't enough to cause a miss.
Parallax isn't nearly the problem some worry about. Simply put if your eye isn't directly behind the scope when you look through the scope the bullet will impact somewhat different than the aiming point. As long as your eye is directly in line with the scope it is never a problem. And if you're not directly behind the scope the maximum error the bullet will impact away from point of aim is less than 1/4" @ 100 yards.
From a Leupold owners manual.
Parallax isn't nearly the problem some worry about. Simply put if your eye isn't directly behind the scope when you look through the scope the bullet will impact somewhat different than the aiming point. As long as your eye is directly in line with the scope it is never a problem. And if you're not directly behind the scope the maximum error the bullet will impact away from point of aim is less than 1/4" @ 100 yards.
From a Leupold owners manual.
cdb1
Member
Skylerbone said:
I have the Clearidge, to me it's a great scope.
jmr40 said:
Agreed.
Skylerbone
Member
According to correction charts that's not a correct figure and different scopes will also vary in amount. Objects closer than 100 yds will have an increased potential for error. In other words parallax error is not a fixed value.
There are other factors but given a 40mm objective, target at 25 yds, and a scope with 100 yds fixed parallax, the error is nearly .6", .67" at 15 yds. Factoring in a shooter's ability and mechanical accuracy of the rifle and scope...I can see a clean miss on a squirrel's head.
Is that a lot to a deer hunter? Heck no. To a target shooter? Unacceptable. To the OP? Maybe? Again I still prefer the quickness of a fixed parallax and for some applications it will make a difference.
What I mostly know is that my rifle is exceptionally accurate, fuzzy picture or not. Three head-shot squirrels is testimony to that fact. I'm taking it prairie doggin' next week. My issue is that I like a close up view which requires higher magnification. My 17Mach2 with a Bushnell Elite 4-16X AO allows me to see their whiskers. The adjustable objective helps clarify the view at a variety of distances. Since I can't live with the scope as it is, it will probably be transferred to another rifle to which it will be better suited, maybe a Tikka .243. I'm looking at Leupold's 3-9X 33 EFR (Extended Focal Range) with AO. Thanks to Skylerbone for that suggestion. Now I just need the right price. BTW, I stopped by my local Bushnell outlet and found some others that might work. So many options
GooseGestapo
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 6,145
You can send it back to Leupold. Include a letter explaining your issue.
From the factory, the parallax is corrected to 150yds on the 3.5-10x scopes. For rimfire use, they can adjust/reset the foward objective lenses to set for closer distance.
50yds for .22lr, perhaps 75-100yds for .17hmr or .22wmr.
I have a 3-9x VariXII "Compact" on a CZ-452 American. In 2011, I got limit of 10 squirrels with 11shots. All were head shots. Extra shot was for one I hit through jaw, took another to finish. My fault.
At 9x, it's a little blurry under 40yds...
I have a 2-7 that focuses down to 25yds on 7x.
From the factory, the parallax is corrected to 150yds on the 3.5-10x scopes. For rimfire use, they can adjust/reset the foward objective lenses to set for closer distance.
50yds for .22lr, perhaps 75-100yds for .17hmr or .22wmr.
I have a 3-9x VariXII "Compact" on a CZ-452 American. In 2011, I got limit of 10 squirrels with 11shots. All were head shots. Extra shot was for one I hit through jaw, took another to finish. My fault.
At 9x, it's a little blurry under 40yds...
I have a 2-7 that focuses down to 25yds on 7x.
Skylerbone
Member
I've done this myself on a number of scopes but again, it won't help the OP with focal length. Imagine your eyes are the scope and a book is the target. We each have a "reading distance" wherein the type is clear. Too far away and it becomes difficult to read (like line 10 on an eye chart). Too close, and it loses focus (grab a book and see) which is Sniper66's problem with his scope.
What Sniper66 wants in the analogy is a magnifying glass to change the font size without losing clarity and detail; in other words a scope that makes 30 yards look like line 1 (E) on the eye chart.
OK......shot prairie dogs out in the wide open spaces__no need for adjustments. Out of the first 18 shots I killed 16 p-dogs; all from 50 to 100+ yds. Problem solved; don't try to use a scope for a purpose fpr which it was not intended. Wicked good rifle. Thanks to everyone who help me clear up my fuzzy thinking.
- Status
