TallPine
Member
What, specifically, is "innaccurate" ?
Have you ever seen what a 30-30 does to a deer?
Lever Action Tactical and Plinker
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What, specifically, is "innaccurate" ?
Have you ever seen what a 30-30 does to a deer?
bad_dad_brad
Member
I did a lot of research on the .30-30 and I sure don't feel under-gunned.
I am not a big fan of handgun cartridges in rifles, unless, like the trappers and cowboys of old, you had a revolver in the same caliber. The big bores are okay, but those 9mm tactical rifles? What is with that?
I am not a big fan of handgun cartridges in rifles, unless, like the trappers and cowboys of old, you had a revolver in the same caliber. The big bores are okay, but those 9mm tactical rifles? What is with that?
seeker_two
Member
Excellent choice, bdb. The .30-30 has put more than a few BG's in their place. I'm considering finding one as my own "Homeland Defense Rifle".
As for ammo, Winchester & PMC both make hollowpoint ammo that's touted for hunting & for SD. I've been told that it's as good as anything coming out of the barrel of an AK or an AR. And a lot easier to top off than either.
In a recent magazine article (can't remember where I read it), Ashley Emerson went through the Thunder Ranch Tactical Rifle course w/ a Winchester .30-30. Was easily able to keep up w/ the AR's in the crowd, and even finished the course near the top. And the Winchester had no failures (unlike some of the "tactical carbines" present...
)
Good shooting...
As for ammo, Winchester & PMC both make hollowpoint ammo that's touted for hunting & for SD. I've been told that it's as good as anything coming out of the barrel of an AK or an AR. And a lot easier to top off than either.
In a recent magazine article (can't remember where I read it), Ashley Emerson went through the Thunder Ranch Tactical Rifle course w/ a Winchester .30-30. Was easily able to keep up w/ the AR's in the crowd, and even finished the course near the top. And the Winchester had no failures (unlike some of the "tactical carbines" present...
)Good shooting...
bad_dad_brad
Member
Well here we go. Try to buy something simple and already I am trying to complicate things.
The sights on my basic Winchester 94 are very hard for my old eyes to pick up. That tiny black bead on the front post, seems almost impossible to see, except only in the bright light of day. My only complaint.
Looks like I am going to have to look at some ghost rings. Life is so complicated.
The sights on my basic Winchester 94 are very hard for my old eyes to pick up. That tiny black bead on the front post, seems almost impossible to see, except only in the bright light of day. My only complaint.
Looks like I am going to have to look at some ghost rings. Life is so complicated.
For most of the same reasons, I bought the 16" Marlin 1894P 44mag. Only 34" long, under 6 lbs, fast and handy, and always topped off.
But the 30-30 is looking like a better choice, as these unpredictable times keep moving toward possibly a big change in the armed civilian's role, with these outside enemies coming onto American soil. 44
But the 30-30 is looking like a better choice, as these unpredictable times keep moving toward possibly a big change in the armed civilian's role, with these outside enemies coming onto American soil. 44
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bad_dad_brad
Member
44,
Being a "big bore" handgun cartridge, I think it will do the job.
But of course, just about any centerfire rifle cartridge will have more energy. There are a few exceptions.
The .30-30 is a powerful round, but the .44 magnum in a carbine ain't no slouch.
I see no reason for you to buy a new lever rifle, I think your Marlin will serve you well.
Being a "big bore" handgun cartridge, I think it will do the job.
But of course, just about any centerfire rifle cartridge will have more energy. There are a few exceptions.
The .30-30 is a powerful round, but the .44 magnum in a carbine ain't no slouch.
I see no reason for you to buy a new lever rifle, I think your Marlin will serve you well.
BusMaster007
Member
These are terrible photos of two 94's I recently acquired:
StepDad's '50-1 and Dad's '68-9, both in .30-30.
The early model is all original; the late model is refinished (had to be because it was in terrible shape). The refinish on the receiver looks like olive drab in 'real life'. The synthetic stock and bbl. band swivel; large lever loop and sight hood, etc. are all matte black. The Lyman #2 peep sight is standard blue. Came out pretty good!
StepDad's '50-1 and Dad's '68-9, both in .30-30.
The early model is all original; the late model is refinished (had to be because it was in terrible shape). The refinish on the receiver looks like olive drab in 'real life'. The synthetic stock and bbl. band swivel; large lever loop and sight hood, etc. are all matte black. The Lyman #2 peep sight is standard blue. Came out pretty good!
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BusMaster007
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longspurr
Member
I see in several newspaper articles that more & more of the Bad guys are wearing body armor. Normally I would second the suggestion to buy a pistol caliber carbine for home defense, but It all depends where you live and what the bad guys are up to.
For some of our urban areas, California, Illinois, New York perhaps a 30-30 is a better choice than a pistol caliber. Armor penetration [ most levels] don't ya know.
For some of our urban areas, California, Illinois, New York perhaps a 30-30 is a better choice than a pistol caliber. Armor penetration [ most levels] don't ya know.
longeyes
member
A couple of years ago I bought a Marlin 336 in .30-30 for all of the reasons mentioned so far. It was my first rifle. I thought of it as being a kind of "PC" AK, American-style, that would be good to have "just in case" to supplement a shotgun. Later, because I couldn't seem to hit squat with the original iron sights (yes, the "old eyes" problem), I got some Ashley ghost-rings and that helped a lot. Good overall package for what I was interested in: close- to medium-range contact, which I define as 50 yards tops. I picked .30-30 because I wanted a real rifle cartridge with some major hitting power for self-defense and the ability to defeat body armor. I favor hollow-points, which are availabe in 125g (Federal)and 150g (Winchester) weights.
megatronrules
Member
I love lever actions. They look as innocent as a gun can. The Duke carried one for god's sake Doesnt get any more friendly than that! They also come up to shoulder,for me better than any rifle I have tried. This includes, SKS,AR,AK and Mini 14's. They point great, they really do. They are short, and handy as well. 30-30 cant be beat. Good cartridge that will be here for years to come. Good choice. I want one of these myself.
Doesnt get any more friendly than that! They also come up to shoulder,for me better than any rifle I have tried. This includes, SKS,AR,AK and Mini 14's. They point great, they really do. They are short, and handy as well. 30-30 cant be beat. Good cartridge that will be here for years to come. Good choice. I want one of these myself. KPersimmon
Member
Well okay then...I suppose just any high powered cartridge would do for home defense, if it eases your mind from such worries as BG's wearing body armor and other more or less imaginative scenarios.
The cartridge would do, that is, until you actually shoot someone with it--and then you'll have to live with the results.
The cartridge would do, that is, until you actually shoot someone with it--and then you'll have to live with the results.
Andrew Wyatt
Member
30-30 isn't "high powered" by any stretch.
It'll work just fine on thin skinned air breathers, and isn't too likely to over penetrate, either.
Kpersimmon, what's your problem with the 30-30?
It'll work just fine on thin skinned air breathers, and isn't too likely to over penetrate, either.
Kpersimmon, what's your problem with the 30-30?
TallPine
Member
The same problem that I have. But I have to say that I relied on one for home defense for years but luckily I never had to use it against a home invasion. Probably would have taken out the bad guy, several walls, the china cabinet and refrigerator, plus one or more neighbors houses.
The 30-30 may not be "high-powered" in comparison to 7mm mag or 300 Win mag, but it is no weakling.
Have you ever shot a deer with a 30-30? Pretty damn sobering to see the kind of damage that it will do. I've seen it take out a 3" section of backbone and just keep right on going. Not just break the backbone, but a whole section just missing - turned into tiny bone chips.
KPersimmon
Member
<<<30-30 isn't "high powered" by any stretch.>>>
So destroying half a man's skull and blowing most of his brains out after penetrating a windshield can't be considered "high powered?" This is the short version of what I, and several other deputies, saw after a shooting with a .30-30 several years ago. The cartridge was 150-grain softpoint factory ammo. That same bullet exited the rear windshield and traveled some 50 feet before it lodged in a bank. True story--no stretch.
Another deputy, a sergeant, reports a suicide with a .30-30 in which a young man brought a rifle to the side of his head and pulled the trigger with his thumb. The result: the young man could no longer be identified by his facial features.
Look, I certainly have no problem with a person defending himself and his family. But let's be sensible. The .30-30 is designed as a deer cartridge, for goodness' sake, and we've got to remember that deer are substantially tougher than us frail human beings. So if there's a .30-30 loading which is more suitable for defensive uses than what's available for deer hunting, then I'd be all for it.
So destroying half a man's skull and blowing most of his brains out after penetrating a windshield can't be considered "high powered?" This is the short version of what I, and several other deputies, saw after a shooting with a .30-30 several years ago. The cartridge was 150-grain softpoint factory ammo. That same bullet exited the rear windshield and traveled some 50 feet before it lodged in a bank. True story--no stretch.
Another deputy, a sergeant, reports a suicide with a .30-30 in which a young man brought a rifle to the side of his head and pulled the trigger with his thumb. The result: the young man could no longer be identified by his facial features.
Look, I certainly have no problem with a person defending himself and his family. But let's be sensible. The .30-30 is designed as a deer cartridge, for goodness' sake, and we've got to remember that deer are substantially tougher than us frail human beings. So if there's a .30-30 loading which is more suitable for defensive uses than what's available for deer hunting, then I'd be all for it.
Andrew Wyatt
Member
*shrug* to each his own.
I've got a number4 mk 1 sitting in the closet with a loaded magazine of 180 grain softpoints as a ready rifle in addition to my shotgun.
I've got a number4 mk 1 sitting in the closet with a loaded magazine of 180 grain softpoints as a ready rifle in addition to my shotgun.
telomerase
Member
use frangibles for safety
If over penetration is a possible problem in a .30-30, get some Glaser or Magsafe frangibles. They'll penetrate the first thing they hit, but if that's the wall, then they'll turn into small-caliber chot spreads before hitting the neighbor's wall. Although your best option would be to move to an alternate universe where US citizens aren't restricted to weapons from TWO centuries back...
If over penetration is a possible problem in a .30-30, get some Glaser or Magsafe frangibles. They'll penetrate the first thing they hit, but if that's the wall, then they'll turn into small-caliber chot spreads before hitting the neighbor's wall. Although your best option would be to move to an alternate universe where US citizens aren't restricted to weapons from TWO centuries back...
Gerald McDonald
Member
BlueDuck, I have an older 94 in 30/30 and a 94 trapper in 357, not much difference in lever throw unless you short stroke it. The 357 is nice because you can pick nearly any indoor range and do a little shootin. Its iffy if it will shoot 38 spec's reliably, mine wont feed 38's reliably but I know others who have had no problems. My 357 shoots 158 or 125's to more or less the same point of aim and recoil with either is not really and issue. For home defense either will fill the bill in my opinion, but a shotgun would probably be a better choice.
Gerald
Gerald
Marshall
Member
BDB,
Congrats on your new Model 94! It probably is a Traditional. I have shot a few deer with a 30-30 lever gun before I went to bolts a long time ago. I still like to get that old gun out now and then. I think you made a wise move and smart decision on the lever gun, either caliber would have worked well. Enjoy!
Congrats on your new Model 94! It probably is a Traditional. I have shot a few deer with a 30-30 lever gun before I went to bolts a long time ago. I still like to get that old gun out now and then. I think you made a wise move and smart decision on the lever gun, either caliber would have worked well. Enjoy!
Sir Galahad
member
Even in California, pump shotguns are still legal. Seems to me to be the best longgun for inside the house. A 7.62x39 will penetrate almost 1/4" of plate steel at 80 feet and the 30-30 is pretty similar to 7.62x39. As far as I have seen, Glasers are not available in 30-30. Maybe they are, but they're still going to run you at least $15 to $17 for 6. And you'll need to shoot a few to see how they act out of the weapon. Contrast that to $3.50 per box of 5 max price premium buckshot. Or you could buy a 9mm, .40 cal, or .45 McPistol of some sort that will do the job at something like $12 per box of 20 premium hollowpoints. Those are still legal in California, too, as are revolvers. As far as bad guys wearing body armor, that's probably overblown to a great extent. The average tweeker would have sold that to buy crank long back if he had armor. Most professionals wearing armor are going to be hitting armored cars or banks. BUT if someone did enter a home wearing armor, as the good G. Gordon Liddy said, they will still not have bullet proof heads.
Now for riots, as I evisioned the original intent of the defensive use of a rifle, the 30-30 would be splendid. In such cases, one may have other considerations to consider besides overpenetration. Such as remaining alive. A shotgun still might be a good choice, but, on the other hand, one may not wish to allow armed thugs to get even that close with molotov cocktails. In such cases, a 30-30 rifle would be a great choice. That is, if you could not lay hands on an AK or an AR, which folks in some states cannot.
Be prepared for anything.
Now for riots, as I evisioned the original intent of the defensive use of a rifle, the 30-30 would be splendid. In such cases, one may have other considerations to consider besides overpenetration. Such as remaining alive. A shotgun still might be a good choice, but, on the other hand, one may not wish to allow armed thugs to get even that close with molotov cocktails. In such cases, a 30-30 rifle would be a great choice. That is, if you could not lay hands on an AK or an AR, which folks in some states cannot.
Be prepared for anything.
Marshall
Member
WHAT'S UP WITH THIS???
A 30-30 not over penatrating a thin skinned two legged critter? What dream world does this happen in? I respectfully suggest you don't stand behind a BG if he is in range of a 30-30 shooter, your opinion would drastically be changed and no one would be able to say...told ya so.
I think it's probably true that the 30-30 has too much penetration for the neighborhood. (Are there low-penetration varmint bullets for the 30-30?)
In reconsidering the 30-30, I was thinking about possibly needing more range if the civilian's defensive needs should change, with enemies actually coming onto our soil.
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But I have not thought this through, and I'm no expert on guns or ammunition. 44
In reconsidering the 30-30, I was thinking about possibly needing more range if the civilian's defensive needs should change, with enemies actually coming onto our soil.
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But I have not thought this through, and I'm no expert on guns or ammunition. 44
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