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Liberal with guns.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by doctorhumbert, Jul 20, 2003.

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  1. doctorhumbert

    doctorhumbert Member

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    It seems that many of the liberals/Democratics are Antis, and are frequently bashed by pro guns. Well, I consider myself a Liberal (as apposite to conservative), yet I love enjoy shooting and belive in the right to bear arms. When harsh words are spoken against liberals I get pretty uncomfortable.

    I opposed war in Iraq. I listen to NPR. I hate Fox News, Sean Hannity, and Bill O'reilly for their rudeness and bias. And yes, I am one of the majority of American who voted for Gore :what: . (please do not try to correct my political stance. This is not a place to discuss it. plus, it's like converting Christian to Muslim, that is if you think there is major difference between those two...)

    AND I AM A GUN NUT. (I skp meal to buy ammo.)

    Am I a freak of a nature? Is a Liberal Assualt Rifle Owner an oxymoron?
    Are there other gun nuts who consider themselves a liberal?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2003
  2. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    I can tell you the answer is "no," even though I'm about as much a liberal as I am a three-headed beetle named "Clarence." :D

    I guess it boils down to how important you consider your right to keep and bear arms compared to your other rights/concerns/what-have-you. I could also make a joke about it doesn't surprise me that a Liberal wouldn't know to put this kind of post in Legal and Political, but that would be too easy.

    :evil:

    Of course, I'm not a very good Republican either. But then, what good are Republicans anyway? :p
     
  3. Peter Gun

    Peter Gun Member

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    Depends on what you call liberal. If used as currently, as an epithet for anybody who thinks the Bush party is full of sh00, then it includes me.
    I am a liberal in the sense that I believe that the government helping its less fortunate citizens is in our own self interest. However I also believe that the Dems have completely screwed this philosophy up by not including any incentive for personal responsibility. I beleive that any system has room for improvement. I believe government should have nothing to do w/ religion. I believe religion stands in the way of logical thought. I believe you do not need religion to be moral. I believe the second amendment is as important and individual as the others. I believe guns are fun and useful. I leave it up to someone else to make my label.
     
  4. Wanderer

    Wanderer Member

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    Hi Clarence :D :neener: You can be both, believing in your rights has nothing to do with your political assertations.
     
  5. 4v50 Gary

    4v50 Gary Moderator Staff Member

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    What Wanderer sez. The gun control debate has to get away from Republican & Democrats. Republicans dealt us some pretty heavy blows (George Bush Sr.) and I don't really trust any of the major parties.
     
  6. Keith

    Keith Member

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    It's sometimes difficult to quantify people as liberal or conservative.

    I consider myself a conservative because I believe in small government that doesn't stick its nose in my business or its hands in my wallet. Basically, that would make me a social liberal and a fiscal conservative. I don't care what you do in your doctors office, your bedroom or on your property. And... I don't want to pay for your lifestyle, no matter what it is.

    Since the Republicans have taken control we've seen government continue to grow and take a more active role in sticking its nose in peoples business.

    So, are Republicans conservatives? I think not.

    The only thing worse for liberty than a Republican, is a Democrat.

    Keith
     
  7. Teufelhunden

    Teufelhunden Member

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    I tend towards the convervative because the Democrats so often seem to be bliss-ninnies completely bereft of any desire to assume responsibility for their own actions and well-being, but everytime I think I'm a Republican, they do something greedy, and everytime I think I'm a Democrat, they do something stupid.

    Thank goodness for the Independant checkbox...


    -Teuf
     
  8. Mastrogiacomo

    Mastrogiacomo Member

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    I thought I was a liberal Democrat and I voted Gore too. I wouldn't today though...and this is why I don't know where I fit in. I'm a gun nut that is pro choice -- but not when it's used as a form of birth control on a regular basis, and never for partial birth abortions. I support gay marriages -- or at least the right for partners to have medical say over one another, share health coverage, adopt children, and have the same protection under the law that married people do. It's none of my business what goes on in a person's private life as long as no one is doing anything illegal or hurting anyone....

    I support weed being legalized -- but only for medical purposes and not for private use by teens and hippies just because it's there. I support prostitution being legalized so we can regulate it and crack down on offenders that exploit children.

    I'm not too thrilled these days with the politicans and although I supported this war, it's time to bring our men and women home now. We're not the police officers of the world nor should we linger where we're not welcomed. I can honestly tell you I don't know how to refer to myself. Maybe what I'm listed as when I go to vote -- Independent...

    :cool:
     
  9. Jerrywahid

    Jerrywahid Member

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    I may not appreciate your beliefs but you have the right to believe as you wish. You may call yourself a liberal but your individual beliefs may not fit my conception of liberalism. Similarly my conservative beliefs might differ from whatever conservative stereotypes you might hold.

    On this forum the most important issue is that of the second ammendment. If you believe in the conservation of the second ammendment I consider you to not be a liberal in that regard.
     
  10. Baba Louie

    Baba Louie Member

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    Ya know, now that I think about it, I too am "Liberal with Guns." Not "A" liberal with guns, but more of a "Generous in amount; ample" sorta way. I think everyone should be, don't you?

    Adios
     
  11. Moparmike

    Moparmike Member

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    All you Gore supporters, dont feel too bad. I was a Clinton supporter(0) when I was young and ignorant (read 9-17 yrs of age) and didnt have many negative comments about his second term, besides all the press it got (stupid reporters droning on and on:cuss: ). I will tell you now that if I had the choice, I would have voted for Gore then. I just couldnt hold my nose (even if I was 18 then) and vote for Bush. I would vote for Bush now (unless a Libertarian candidate stood a serious chance of winning) as he has improved quite a bit in the past two years (especially the "Bring 'em on", I loved that:D ).

    I of course fully supported then and support now the 2nd. No question about it, but didnt realize at age 11 what the AWB did. At 11, I couldnt see why anyone needed a full-auto in their house, and believed the rhetorical mantra of "keep them off the streets".:banghead:

    (0) Please keep any comments and qestions on my stance regulated to PM's, as this really isnt the place for a heated debate/argument. I hate having someone's thread locked because of thread drift that I contributed to.
     
  12. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    Don't sweat it. From where I stand, there is essentially no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats.
     
  13. Mastrogiacomo

    Mastrogiacomo Member

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    I voted for Clinton twice. We all have made mistakes or been lied to and mislead by politicans. The second time though I knew I had made a mistake but I didn't like the alternative either. Hopefully we all learn by our from the past -- unlike politicans -- and don't repeat them. I didn't buy Hillary's book, I won't buy Bill's and although I respect our President, I disagree with him keeping our soldiers there and say it's time for him to honor his word and bring them home safe.
     
  14. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    liberal doesn't mean anti-gun rights

    Yes, I am also a liberal (or maybe moderate) gun nut. I've always thought that the government ought to help out the underprivilaged and support programs to advance the sciences. I think religion has no place in government. Unlike a lot of people on this board, I was pleased with a lot of recent supreme court decisions. I think the government for all its problems has still done a lot of good to make people's lives better.

    That said, I don't like the Democrats at all. They go way too far, and it's completely unfair to lay the recession at the feet of the president. Their obsession with gun control is dismaying. I consider RKBA a human right, and is not to be messed with. Democrats need to drop the gun control agenda.
     
  15. WR Olsen

    WR Olsen Member

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    "Don't sweat it. From where I stand, there is essentially no difference between the Republicans and the Democrats"

    From where I stand the difference appears to be:

    "The moochers vrs. the misers"
     
  16. BryanP

    BryanP Member

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    Hi Doc,

    If listening to (and enjoying, and contributing $ to) NPR makes you a liberal then I guess that makes me one, but I don't really consider myself to be one as such. I jokingly refer to myself as a "moderately liberal conservative" in that I am conservative in many areas but not tied to the party line.

    I don't hate Fox News, but I do think that anyone who considers them to be unbiased is foolish. They're as far to the right as ABC is to the left. Me, I listen to the left and the right and figure the truth is somewhere in the middle.

    As for the negative traits that liberals and conservatives like to label each other with, I know people of either persuasion that fit all the Standard Bad Stereotypes. I know people at the other end of that as well. One good friend of mine is so conservative he jokingly says that he "walks with a distinct list to starboard" while another equally good friend is a self-described socialist. Each of these people has the ability to discuss their beliefs without getting upset and starting a yelling match which is a trait lacking in many. (to be fair, I've never discussed politics with both of them in the same room :D )

    There was a point in there somewhere, but I seem to have lost it. Oh well. Good night all.
     
  17. goon

    goon Member

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    I actually have nothing against Liberals per se.
    If and when I bash liberals, I am actually bashing the anti-gun liberals only.
    I come closer to being a liberal than a conservative.
    I personally think that you should pretty much be able to live your life as you choose without any interference from any government, ever, period.
    Just don't hurt anyone else.
    That is more than less the hallmark of a libertarian.

    As far as the AWB thing, it is bad. It is bad from the standpoint that it is an infringement on what an American can do with his life.
    Banning an "assault weapon" is stupid anyhow.
    I personally feel that one of my old C&R rifles is a better weapon than an AK. I only own an AK because there are people hellbent on restricting my right to own one. I can't hit crap with it, but it is the ultimate slap in the face of the anti-gun people.
     
  18. El Tejon

    El Tejon Member

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    Hey, l listen to National People's Radio, but only to monitor the enemy's communications. It's not easy, most of the broadcasts start out "boo hoo hoo . . . the children . . . boo hoo hoo.":D

    Liberals/leftists own guns. Far more than we suspect. Look at Oprah's or Di Fi's or the Clintons' armoury. Liberals may not hate guns, but they do hate us huckleberries out here in flyover country.

    It's O.K.; I hate them right back, plus I know how to use them and am not giving them up.:D
     
  19. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I was a leftist once upon a time, too, but I grew up.
     
  20. mec

    mec Member

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    Althought I like Fox News, I agree that they have a definate conservative slant. Not as bad as the total liberal kant of what used to be the major networks. Fox has some liberals on staff where as CBS is completely leftist.

    Fox provides the "equal time" we never got before. Somebody once said, " If you're not a socialist when you're 20, you have no soul. If you're still a socialist when you're 40, you have no brain." Might just be that both mindsets have some merit and keeping an open mind is the best course.
     
  21. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    Standing Wolf, you have a PM.

    Doc, no offense, but if you're going to write an entire thread about how you're a liberal, discuss your liberal views and which particular right-wing talk-show hosts you don't like, you can't be too serious when you ask people not to discuss that topic or "try to convert" you. You've got to know people are going to try. If you didn't want them to, you wouldn't have challenged them on a public forum. ;)
    Have fun.
     
  22. doctorhumbert

    doctorhumbert Member

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    Every one has right to their own opinions. My primary question was to find others who consider themselves as a Liberal Gun Supporter as I am.
     
  23. Jrob24

    Jrob24 Member

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    During my first year of college I was turning into a liberal. I even got involved with one of the main liberal groups on campus. At the same time I was discovering the RKBA. I stopped to reevaluate my beliefs and decided to make an effort to base my beliefs on logic and not emotion. Later I concluded that I'm mostly a libertarian.
     
  24. Monkeyleg

    Monkeyleg Member

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    If anyone considers himself a "gun-totin' liberal," then the best thing he can do is to come down hard on the local leaders of the party: the state Democrat party, the union stewards, and so on.

    "Liberalism"--at least in the form that I knew it years ago--got hijacked by the likes of Josh Sugarman and the former Republican Sarah Brady. The last presidential election should prove to the power brokers that gun control is a losing cause.

    If the Dem's would kick Sarah lose, it could make for more interesting politics, just as the idea of the Repub's jettisoning Pat Roberts might make for a more interesting mix.

    As gunowners, we've been forced to accept one camp because the Sarah's on the other side won't let us in their tent. As a so-called "conservative," that just ain't my problem. It's the problem of the party that champions the Sarah's of the country.

    Here's a quote from an old-line liberal. Imagine any one of the current crop of presidential wannabe's saying this:

    "Certainly one of the chief guarantees of freedom under any government, no matter how popular and respected, is the right of the citizen to keep and bear arms. This is not to say that firearms should not be very carefully used and that definite rules of precaution should not be taught and enforced. But the right of the citizen to bear arms is just one more safeguard against a tyranny which now appears remote in America, but which historically has proved to be always possible."

    Any guesses as to who the author of that quote was?
     
  25. Malone LaVeigh

    Malone LaVeigh Member

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    My definition of "liberal" includes support for all of the constitutional, and maybe a few more, human rights.

    We've had this discussion many times here and on TFL. You could do a search and find out where a lot of people stack up. I defined myself on one such thread as a green, civil libertarian, market-economy, social democrat.
     
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