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Liberia? Go or not?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Khornet, Jul 11, 2003.

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  1. Khornet

    Khornet Member

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    Whaddya think, and why?
     
  2. AZTOY

    AZTOY Member

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    Do we have a choice?
     
  3. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Member

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    Not a comment on right or wrong: I'm getting concerned about us being spread thin.
     
  4. spacemanspiff

    spacemanspiff Senior Member

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    as much as most of us despise the UN, i think their "peacekeeping" forces should be sent instead of US Soldiers.
     
  5. HankB

    HankB Member

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    We should send troops when two things happen:

    1. The specific threat to US national security is clearly identified
    2. The European nations urging us to go join us with military forces proportionate to their populations.
     
  6. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    I've done a little open-soruce research for a friend in the Army who might get sent there...

    The place is hell on Earth. Higher infant mortality rate and 10x the AIDS infection rate of Somalia. A low estimate of the major mutually antagonistic armed factions is five, but is really higher. You've got Christians vs. Muslims vs. tribal religions, you've got the Amer-Liberians vs. the tribes (who all fight among themselves), and the guy we are trying to oust bankrolls one of the largest armed factions of the bunch. He sent it into Sierra Leone to turn a buck and killed God knows how many people in the process. The death tolls are lower there compared to the ones that got in the news for other African "countries" only because the population is small.

    Random tidbit: they like waffles and syrup there. That, however, is the closest thing to a "compelling national interest" we have over there.
     
  7. seeker_two

    seeker_two Member

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    Let the UN handle this one---WITHOUT US!...:neener:
     
  8. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    Some other thoughts...

    The one group of people there that would, in theory, support a US presence would be the Amero-Liberians, the mostly Christian descendants of the ex-slaves we dropped off there. They speak English and, as noted, like waffles. They are also only 5% of the population. However, the monstrous kleptocrat that we are trying to oust is also an Amero-Liberian, and presumably has alot of support from that group. So, to use a rough estimate, we can expect support in the long run from about 2.5% of the population. The 20% that are Muslims will hate us by default, as will most of the various tribal factions, since we supported the Amero-Liberians that took their land away from them from way back when.

    To give you a flavor for the tribal factions' behavior, the BBC recently reported that they were making potions out of human organs to help them to win elections by way of magic.

    In a way, Libera is worse than Somalia, because feeding people in the middle of a famine will buy off some of the population by default. Our problems came about when the famine was averted and we tried to do too much with too little resources and moronic tactics.

    Peacekeeping only works when there is peace to keep, the majority supports the peacekeeping, and you only need to suppress a small minority of crazy troublemakers. It is a simple lesson that never seems to sink in with anybody. :rolleyes:
     
  9. Azrael256

    Azrael256 Member

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    I don't think it's a wise idea at all. If the UN wants to go in, that's fine, but we're staying home. The only way I would support a UN force comprised of Americans (as they always seem to be) is if we make our position very clear. Our men are trained to fight, so we're going to land the Marines on the beach, and fight our way through the country from there. That's what our men are here to do, and that's how we keep the American casualties to a minimum. When we're done conquering the place, we'll worry about "peacekeeping."
     
  10. BigG

    BigG Member

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    I wonder after all the lessons learned we haven't come up with something to replace the chopper or at least support that flying coffin with some serious fire. Too many widows from those things.
     
  11. Solinvictus70

    Solinvictus70 Member

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    Nope, we're already in a mess in Iraq and trying to keep peace in Bosnia & Afghanistan. We have no national interest in Liberia and the people have no interest in maintaining a civil society.
     
  12. Crimper-D

    Crimper-D Member

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    Leave Them ALONE!

    The US, and for that matter, any of the industrialized countries in the UN have absolutely NOTHING to gain by bringing "Peace" to Liberia.
    The 3rd World whiners in the big debating society on the Hudson River may make an unholy lot of noise about the situation there, but won't do a thing to remedy the situation except to send in troops - OURS and the EU's, but certainly not their local troops from member countries bordering that tropical cesspool.
    Peace and Stability:confused: You'd think the US would have learned it's lessons on how to deal 'successfully' with kleptocratic warlords in HATI!:banghead:
     
  13. HankB

    HankB Member

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    So going in there would be like going into parts of Chicago (or LA or Detroit or . . . ) and picking a "winner" from the Crips, the Bloods, the P Stone Nation, the Gangsta Disciples, the Hanafi Muslims, etc.

    Lovely . . . just lovely.

    Which one of them would YOU prefer? :barf:
     
  14. Boats

    Boats member

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    Africa provides the perfect testing ground for that vigorous new EU common foreign policy Schroeder and Chirac have been itching to try out.:evil:

    France already meddles nearly everywhere on the Dark Continent. They unilaterally put in troops, they prop up Francophony Africa. They help starve people through EU farm and consumer policy by getting African nations to boycott any food aid from North America that might have, or actually be, genetically modified crops for "fear" of contaminated African farm imports.

    Vont les Français courageux! Reprennent votre gloire nationale perdue dans la terre en friche qui est l'Afrique! (Go forth courageous Frenchmen! Recapture your lost national glory in the wasteland that is Africa!)

    Mon Dieu! Boats knows French! It makes me especially derisive since I can read their news sites online.:evil:
     
  15. George Hill

    George Hill Member

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    I think we should go. Liberia is our responsability. Was from the start.
     
  16. goon

    goon Member

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    I think we need to station troops.
    On our own soil.
    This is going to sound cold, but this is not my fight.
    There are about half a zillion armed quarrels going on around the world right now, and damn near all of them are none of my business.
    On the surface it seems like a humanitarian mission, but we will end up getting screwed again.
    American Soldiers join the US Army. They don't join the Liberian Army.
    We need to put our own house in order before we can start worrying about other nations' problems.
    If the government wants to spend money, they can give it to the 4 million Americans who are out of work.
     
  17. Sean Smith

    Sean Smith Member

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    Nearly a century and a half later, they are responsible for themselves. :rolleyes:

    We don't owe the subliterate disease vectors of the world our "help," especially when you grasp that they generally don't want it, or want it on terms antiethical to everything America is supposed to represent in the first place.

    Here is the BBC article about the cannibalistic magic potion part of Liberian culture...

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/africa/1472452.stm
     
  18. clem

    clem Member

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    Not just NO, but HELL NO!

    I say build a fence around Africa and when the shooting, yelling and other BS stops, then send troops. But if we do go, make sure to bring our check book.

    Also, where are all of these friggin UN wonder troops? Where are the troops of the African National Congress? Oh, that's right THEY ALL might be part of the problem.:fire:
     
  19. Art Eatman

    Art Eatman Administrator Staff Member

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    I see no national interest in Liberia. So, no go.

    We're in lots of other places where I don't think we have any true national interest. We're in lots of places as some form of GloboRoboCop, and I don't really think it's in our overall best interest to play that role. The Balkans come readily to mind.

    Art
     
  20. HBK

    HBK member

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    Hell no. Don't go to Liberia, not even on vacation.
     
  21. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    No certain goal, no local support, no profit in case of even a successful mission, very likely casualties from enemy action and disease...no! Volunteers shouldn't be deterred from going over as mercs or tourists.

    And lest anyone take issue with my tag-line (human life is worth defending), we are talking about the equivalent of sending a cop to investigate a domestic dispute in which every family member is hosing down the place with a belt-fed.
     
  22. sm

    sm member

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    No go.
    Oleg-good analogy!
     
  23. sctman800

    sctman800 Member

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    Our founding fathers would be turning over in their graves if they knew even half of the foreign meddeling we are already into. American servicemen, and women are for the defence of the United States, PERIOD. Soldiers are not supposed to be policemen. As far as those who believe Americans should be involved in Liberia, I say they are free to go there and fight for whatever faction they feel is deserving. Jim.
     
  24. Seeker

    Seeker Member

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    Well things are heating up in Liberia...

    The U.S. should stay out of it.
    I don't see how it is our fight.

    I argee w/ Oleg. If some want to volunreer , then they should get themselves a blue helmet and and go keep peace.

    The U.S. is not the cop of the world.

    And if we did decide to involve ourselves, what side would we prop up?

    from cia fact book:
    Also the

    We really need to stay univolved.
    CIA World Fact Book gives this background info on Liberia:


    Kinda makes it sound like Pres Taylor was elected in free and open elections...

    Today in the AP it says that:
    but...
    I guess that is one way to stay out of it...


    What say the rest of you? yay or nay in Liberia?
     
  25. farranger

    farranger Member

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    No way. We need to be saving our troops for places of interest, such as the PRK.
     
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