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Life vs Freedom

Discussion in 'Legal' started by General Geoff, Jun 8, 2007.

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  1. General Geoff

    General Geoff Member

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    I'm in a debate with this decidedly anti-gun person, and I think it has boiled down to this question; Is life more important than freedom?

    I say no, it is not; for without freedom, life is not worth living. What do you guys think?


    (I know it's not technically gun related, but this is a broader topic of discussion upon which the gun argument, and indeed, this country, is based).
     
  2. Leif Runenritzer

    Leif Runenritzer Member

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    Lives are always ending and beginning, but freedom is not so persistant, and must be upheld.

    EDIT: It's missing something. It's like i'm saying that life is cheap, which i'm not.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2007
  3. Kacerdias

    Kacerdias Member

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    I think this is best summed up by the quote which inspired the New Hampshire state motto:

    "Live free or die; Death is not the worst of evils." - General John Stark, July 31, 1809

    I say Freedom - it takes lives to get and keep it.
     
  4. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    I'd say the prospect of freedom is worth living for. Otherwise, as soon as one is captured or enslaved, suicide would be the logical course.
     
  5. MrRezister

    MrRezister Member

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    On the other hand, it's much easier to fight toward freedom if you're not dead. And my suicide does nothing whatsoever for those who survive.
     
  6. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    from 'Catch-22' (film)

    American USAAF Officer (Art Garfunkel): "It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees".

    The Old (Italian) Man: "Ah, you have it backwards".

    ------


    When it becomes a very cerebral and heady debate, the meat hook nature of our biological underpinings has the best answers to offer. The very meaning of freedom is always mutable. The nature of survival and adaptation is not.

    Is freedom worth dying for? In the balance, sometimes a lot easier of a question to answer.
     
  7. Titan6

    Titan6 member

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    In a nut shell - The sheep don't care about freedom. They would rather have the sheep dog there to protect them and tell them what to do.
     
  8. JesseL

    JesseL Member

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    Translation:
    It's better to die upon your feet than to live upon your knees!

    Living without freedom isn't truly living at all. What meaning does your life have when you don't have the freedom to make life's choices? As a slave the most you can hope for is whatever base pleasures your master allows you.
     
  9. Neo-Luddite

    Neo-Luddite Member

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    :)It's always better in Latin than in the vulgate--Thanks!!
     
  10. jselvy

    jselvy member

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    Life without freedom and fundamental human rights is mere existence.
    Our ability to to see this simple fact is what elevates the human race above mere herd animals, unfortunately it is not reliable.

    Jefferson
     
  11. JesseL

    JesseL Member

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    Dying rarely accomplishes much. Now if the question was "Is freedom worth risking death in fighting for?", I know my answer.
     
  12. nezumi

    nezumi Member

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    I would rather have my life than my own freedom. I'd rather have my children's freedom than my life.
     
  13. Oleg Volk

    Oleg Volk Moderator Emeritus

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    Freedom and long life tend to go together, as do slavery and short, miserable life.
     
  14. freakazoid

    freakazoid member

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    Hmm.... which quote shall I use out of my quote list.... This one seems good,

    Thomas Jefferson, to Archibald Stuart, 1791

    Freedom over life for me, :)
     
  15. eric_t12

    eric_t12 Member

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    So freedomis my choice. for ^^this^^ and other reasons.
     
  16. JerryM

    JerryM Member

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    We fight wars, and millions die to protect our freedoms. However, everything is not worth dying for. It is not worth dying for to be able to shout fire in a crowded theater.

    It is fashionable to quote, " I disagree, but would fight to the death for his right to ..."
    I would not fight for someone's right to burn the flag, or to wear vulgar words on their shirts, or to place porno on a billboard.

    Jerry
     
  17. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Free vs Dead

    Easy to exclaim: "Give me liberty or give me death." until the noose tightens around our neck and the hangman offers us a last smoke. Might be one of those things to work out a commitment to in advance.

    It seems that the older we are, the less idealistic we become, and the more realistic. Easier to consider dying for the cause when our lives are growing to a close than when they're just beginning. This isn't to say that young people who are highly motivated are incapable of that commitment. Just that it's an easier choice for the older folk. The 60 year-old feels that the end of his life is close, and thinks: "What the hell...I've had a pretty good run. Why not stand and fight." ...while the 20 year-old dwells on the women he hasn't loved...the rum he hasn't drunk...the fast cars he hasn't driven...and the sunsets that he hasn't seen, and may never see if he stands fast. Life, or the prospect of life...is more precious to the young man than the old man...when all he has to do in order to see and do all those things is surrender.

    But, historically...young men bleed in the wars that old men start. It should probably be the other way around...but somehow, I just can't see many of our senior senators in flak vests and carrying M-60s into a killing zone.

    That said...Fighting and dying in the name of liberty is as much for the next generation as for the present one. The legacy that we leave our children and our grandchildren does more to define our honor and our resolve than that which we create for ourselves. Thank God that we still have a good number of strong, young lions who are willing. The question still looms..."Are we?"

    The assault on our freedoms and our liberties won't come in a sudden rush. It comes a nibble at a time, until we look up one day...and they've taken us without firing a shot...or at least not many shots. So...How do we determine exactly when it's time to take a hard stand? How many Wacos and Ruby Ridges? One man or one small contigent...or even one large one...won't stop anything. Isolated incidents are considered to be no more than small, unimportant rebellious uprisings. Those get squashed quickly and easily.

    How long can your small band of merry men stand against the 82nd Airborne or the 7th Marines?

    Reminds me of a famous quote:

    "We must hang together, or we will surely hang separately."
     
  18. freakazoid

    freakazoid member

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    Ack, stop making me think of all that, your making me depressed now, lol :p.

    But everything you said seems to be true. What must happen, how much must be taken away before enough becomes enough?
     
  19. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Exactly..and how do we know? There won't be a whistle to signal that it's begun. Oh, wait! That's right! It's already begun.
     
  20. 1911Tuner

    1911Tuner Moderator Emeritus

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    Exactly..and how do we know? There won't be a whistle to signal that it's begun. Oh, wait! That's right. It's already begun.
     
  21. RevolvingCylinder

    RevolvingCylinder Member

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    Exactly. The older guy had the opportunity to start a family and the young guy is the only one to risk his bloodline. I find it rather ironic when I hear a few well-to-do able-bodied men say that they won't even consider doing their part because they have a family but it's fine and dandy to send the young guys to risk their lives even though they never had the opportunity.
     
  22. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    The phrase you're looking for is "False Dichotomy."
     
  23. Veprman

    Veprman Member

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    I have though of this a lot. Im 22. I dont know if fighteing or dieing for freedom is worth it. Is it better to live a long life as a slave than to die for something that you won't be alive to enjoy? Without freedom I could still most likly be happy. I really dont know what to do or what id do. I honestly dont even know if we have a chance of winning any kind of uprising. As for what a preivios poster said about the 82 and the marines. The answer would be not long. Sure a bunch of them would probably die in the process but you would loose. Even if you managed to kill an entire squad and take their m249s you still get taken out eventually. But hopefully there will be a lot of those 82 airbourn and Marine troops standing there with you aganst their trator comrads.
     
  24. freakazoid

    freakazoid member

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    I'll be 22 in July, :D, and I believe that fighting and dieing for freedom is very much worth it. Even if it was a small uprising that got quickly crushed, it would be worth it. Just look at the American Revolution. I would rather die on my feet than to sell out my ideals and live on my knees.

    But I am just a crazy anarchist so what does it matter what I think, :p rofl
     
  25. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Saoras no bàs! ;)


    Hey, give me one of those electric scooters and I'm good to go :)
     
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