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Light carbine concept

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by cluttonfred, Dec 11, 2019.

  1. BlueHeelerFl

    BlueHeelerFl Member

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    When there was cheap surplus ammo and cheap surplus rifles it was very popular.

    Nowadays the AR is a superior platform.
     
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  2. cluttonfred

    cluttonfred Member

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  3. Archie

    Archie Member

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    I think it's a good idea. Not a serious engineering or design problem, either. I would go for a non-detachable box magazine loaded with stripper clips. Far capacity, quick reload for those who value such things and not much to lose. Update the stock design, getting rid of the oiler and sling arrangement. It would be a good defense and even small game rifle (perhaps up to deer size critters, if the shooter could hold correctly.

    However, I doubt any manufacturer will take it on. As mentioned before. More than anything else, the cartridge simply isn't as 'new and improved' as the current 'hot' cartridges. It cannot be fired at something two counties away and so on. The fad is not favorable.
     
  4. <*(((><
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    <*(((>< Contributing Member

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    Personally, my and probably most users appreciation for the 30 carbine round is the platform it is built for; that is where I would get my satisfaction out of utilizing said round. M1 Carbines are sweet! Very handy and have lots of history, what's not to like, I say enjoy the cartridge as it was meant to be enjoyed.

    But one would be hard pressed to market a 30 carbine over a 300BO or 7.62x39 now days. This last statement is more about market feasibility than anything else, but people do buy odd things that don't make sense, in my book this would be one of those ideas; given the current development of cartridges within the same scope of use.
     
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  5. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    I came real close to buying one of the new Inland 30 carbines. But the price was the deal killer. So is the fact that there is no more cheap surplus ammo. I would like a small lightweight bolt action or even a single shot like the H&R handi rifle or one of the new Henry single shots. But its not ever going to happen.
     
  6. Ratshooter

    Ratshooter Member

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    There have been many deer killed with the 30 carbine. And probably many more lost when FMJ rounds were used to hunt with it. The Speer #10 manual mentions the 30 carbine in the 357 section. It also says the 357 is a much better deer round.
     
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  7. Mr_Flintstone

    Mr_Flintstone Member

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    Purely from an energy standpoint, 110 gr .30 carbine from an M1 Carbine, 55 gr .223 from a 16” AR, and 125 gr .357 Magnum from a lever gun are close to the same (at around 1000 fpe) from the muzzle, with a slight edge to the .357. The thing that sets the other two (and .300 blackout) apart from the .30 carbine is the ability to use heavier bullets (up to a point). Allowing the .223 to go up to about 1250 fpe, and the .357 up to about 1350 fpe. .300 blackout tops them all at a max over 1400 fpe. ARs that use 5.56 ammo, and those with 20” barrels, though put the .223/5.56 much higher on the list. In their standard factory loads, I would prefer .300 Blackout, .357 Magnum (medium-heavy bullet), .223 (heavy bullet) and then .30 carbine (in that order) for hunting deer. That said, for personal defense at defensive distances, and with expanding bullets, each and every one of them would be very effective. 1000 foot-pounds+ from a light rifle should be plenty sufficient for stopping human attackers.
     
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  8. Gordon
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    Gordon Contributing Member

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    San Cristobal Carbine, Model 2 , about 100,000 produced in the 1950s, interesting story
    San-Cristobal34.jpg
     
  9. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    If you didn't want a semi-auto, I'd say get yourself a little .44 mag or .357 Mag lever gun. I still say it. They're great. MIne's a .44mag.
     
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  10. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    I have a 10mm AR, it's pretty cool really.

    Although I think that other than the 30carbine and internal box magazine parts everything else is covered by a 10mm Hi Point Carbine
     
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  11. Mr_Flintstone

    Mr_Flintstone Member

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    Except the weight. My bare bones 4595TS weighs in at over 7lbs loaded. I Imagine the 1095TS is about the same. Good guns though.
     
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  12. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Member

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    In the late 1950's Marlin produced the Model 62 levermatic rifle in .30 carbine and .256 winchester.
    Steel detachable 4 round magazine.

     

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  13. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Member

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  14. rust collector
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    rust collector Contributing Member

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    Once upon a time there was a handy, light rifle that was readily available (6.2 million made), inexpensive, and cheap to feed. The gun and ammunition were designed for each other, and the gun was much easier to shoot accurately than the side arm it was meant to replace. Life was good.

    After the 40s, however, shooters wanted more capable cartridges, they wanted optical sights, and they wanted modular construction so they could reconfigure a gun for different uses. The era of the M-1 carbine had passed.

    Shooters are a demanding lot. They want an inexpensive gun that is light, powerful and flexible as well as aesthetically pleasing and unique. We all settle for our own blend of these very disparate characteristics, but the M-1 carbine now lies outside the Venn diagram overlap for most of us. That doesn't make it a bad gun, but as Thomas Wolfe observed, it is a home to which you cannot return.
     
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  15. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    Wow, the new stock adds a ton then. I think my 995 weighs just over 5 lbs
     
  16. Mr_Flintstone

    Mr_Flintstone Member

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    I just checked their website: the 995TS weighs in at 6.25 lb unloaded, and the 4595TS and 1095TS at 7 lb unloaded. They aren’t light for what they are because they function with a blowback-only action. Like I said though, they are quite good guns, just heavy.
     
  17. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

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    I agree with this. A lot of people's love for the 30 carbine is more for the platform it's in.
    I would love an m1 scaled to 9mm or 40 S&w. Or go the other way and make it 300BO.
    The M1 carbine looks cool.
     
  18. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

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    Not to derail. Does the 10mm function with 40S&W like some of the handguns? I had forgotten about those things.
     
  19. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

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    Lite Carbine - in .357 Mag.

    WP-20190722-10-30-45-Pro-50-crop.jpg

    WP-20190722-10-34-34-Pro-50-crop.jpg



    GR
     
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  20. Rex in OTZ

    Rex in OTZ Member

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    Chiappa makes a blowback 9mm that uses the Beretta 92/M-9 magazines.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
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  21. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    I've never tried it, so no idea.
     
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  22. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    According to my scale it's 5.8 lbs for mine loaded.

    New stock is apparently ugly, heavy, tries to rip off your face and has a stupid spring for recoil. Well done Hi Point.....ffs
     
  23. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    Alaskan Ironworker and maybe others suggest an SKS. This idea seems to be heresy for people who are emotionally attached to guns used by our soldiers, even if not used by any family member. It's understandable.
    Not so many Glock handguns were used by our soldiers, but these foreign guns are now cherished by Vast multitudes in the US (and Austria was part of the Third Reich, and the home country of...?). Just food for thought.

    The export variation known as the "Paratrooper SKS" is even handier, and extremely reliable if the original magazine etc is left alone.
    Its muzzle energy, despite the shortened barrel, should surpass that of any M-1 Carbine.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
  24. LiveLife

    LiveLife Member

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    I did not suggest SKS.

    I suggested Kel-Tec Sub2000 chambered in 40S&W and perhaps PCC in 10mm if higher muzzle velocity was desired - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/light-carbine-concept.860208/#post-11317403

    "How about Kel-Tec Sub2000 in 40S&W?

    ... [OP] asked for carbine that is more powerful, accurate and user friendly than pistol for home defense truck gun.

    Just provided an option that met most of [OP's] criteria that is already available. And if 40S&W is not powerful enough, there are PCC chambered for 10mm.
    • Semi-automatic carbine
    • Lightweight
    • Simple to operate
    • Affordable
    • Ambidextrous operation
    • Synthetic stock
    • Iron sights standard
    • Picatinny rail standard
    • 10/15/30 round box magazine"
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2019
  25. Ignition Override

    Ignition Override Member

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    LiveLife: My apology. The mistake has been corrected.

    As for the KelTec you've suggested, I've done a bit of reading about their applications, and have been curious about the triggers and other ergos.
    They could also be a good a "partial or total WROL" backpack gun for these semi-rural and suburban areas.
     
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