Light mounted on pistol Y/N

[USMCDK]

All good points... Positions, rule 2, versatility. The thing is it boils down to comfortability and know how. If you aren't comfortable with it or not trained with it, then don't by all means I would not want you to do something that would potentially get youru loved ones or innocence harmed/killed. as for the rest of us, we do it cause we either know how are trained how or are just plain comfortable with it and or are confident in our ability, not saying the others aren't, but we are just the same.

BTW as for the rules thing, I figured it was the 4 safety rules of a firearm, but wanted to be sure that it wasn't just some forum lingo. Thank you Zach

I didn't get trainning from a professional, but I have practiced plenty and still do creating my own comfortable methods on how to go about using my M2 UTL tac-lite. I hope that at least those of you that have a light mount practice if not get the proper training.

 

[easyg]

Another thing to consider....
How will the light on your pistol look in a court of law?

"So you have a light on your pistol....and you shined this light in the face of my client....he couldn't see at this point....he was in fact blind at this time! And then you shot him! YOU SHOT A BLIND MAN!!!"

 

[PennsyPlinker]

^^^^^^^

I really really hope this was written tongue in cheek, and not as a serious comment. If this is serious, I am depressed yet again by the convoluted thought processes of some people here on this board. This rates right up there with the person who told me - in all seriousness - that if I "escalated the situation by drawing my gun to stop a threat, why then he could legally pull his gun and shoot me!" :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Deanimator]

1. You should NEVER point a firearm at anything or anyone you don't want to shoot. A cop recently shot somebody when he reached for his taser and came up with his service pistol by mistake. Assuming he wasn't lying, how much EASIER would it be to intentionally point a firearm at somebody and fire a round instead of turning on the light?

2. Tracers work both ways. So do flashlights. In a gunfight, giving my opponent a distinct aiming point is near the bottom of my priorities.

 

[easyg]

I really really hope this was written tongue in cheek, and not as a serious comment. If this is serious, I am depressed yet again....

Dude, don't get an ulcer....this is just an internet forum.


But I was serious.

 

[Coronach]

I am opposed. It used to be a simple rule: You never point your gun at something you are not willing to destroy, and everytime you light up ANYTHING with your weapon-mounted light (be it a burglar, sofa, or a child who comes around a blind corner) you are pointing the muzzle at it.

If you're doing a proper building search, you'll be pointing your muzzle in the general direction of it anyway, at least for long enough to ID it, and at least at low-ready. The only difference is that you're juggling a gun in one hand and a light in the other. This is the Third Eye principle in action- your gun goes where you look on an active felony search. Now, muzzle-sweeping a target is not required...these things are not like spotlights sweeping the night sky. If you go to low-ready facing a doorway, you can illuminate the portal well enough to ID what comes through it without muzzle-sweeping it.

Those in favor of the lights routinely say "If you don't want to shoot, just don't pull the trigger".

If you're talking active search for a felon, this is correct. If you're talking about anything else, you should not be using your mounted light for illumination. period.

Our #2 guy in my agency doesn't want "loaded flashlights" being pointed around, and I'm with him. In 15 years of this work I haven't found a need for one. We were all taught to use a light in the support hand.

That will certainly work, but as I pointed out there is no safety gain if you're using the mounted light correctly, and your shooting ability is reduced by having the hold both the gun and the light. Don't try to tell me you can shoot just as well holding both, you can't. No one can. It's why we hold the gun with two hands in daylight.

As for carrying two seperate lights, we cops already complain about the amount of things we have hanging off our belts.

Same number of things hanging off of the belt in the weaponlight scenario. One of them just weighs an oz or so more. The weaponlight is NOT, nor has it ever been intended to be, a replacement for the flashlight.

What do people here think?

I think people who object to the weaponlight have not been trained to use them correctly or had any practical experience with them. The main problem is that, like any tool, it magnifies stupidity. Can you end up with officers using it as a loaded flashlight? Yep. The only solution is to train them properly and discipline them if they refuse to be taught, because that is inappropriate.

Mike

 

[Coronach]

AAAAAAND (edit button is still out of service), the weapon lights have a very ergonomically located on off switch OUTSIDE of the trigger guard. There is no need to have the light on all of the time, broadcasting your position, and any manipulations of the on off switch have to be conducted with your finger off of the trigger.

Mike

 

[PPGMD]

2. Tracers work both ways. So do flashlights. In a gunfight, giving my opponent a distinct aiming point is near the bottom of my priorities.

Ah yes the infamous "It will give away my position argument." Very rarely is it dark enough that neither person will see the other. Instead both people see outlines, the differences is that the bad gun knows that you are an enemy, and is willing to shoot if you get close enough, while you have no idea who is there until you light them up.

Also have you ever tried to deliver aimed fire at a 100+ lumen light source? At best you are point shooting while the light is on, and now the enemies eyes have contracted and in the center of his vision he has a blind spot.

The key to using white light in tactical situations is first only to use it indoors (outdoors is NVD because of the distances involved and the fact that you are distinctly giving away your positions), next is the illuminate the target, shoot, turn the light off (if it doesn't have a momentary switch), move, repeat until the threat is stopped.

 

[PennsyPlinker]

Dude, don't get an ulcer....this is just an internet forum.

But I was serious.

No worries, uhhh, dude, I don't get ulcers. I do get headaches when I see this kind of reasoning and think about the education, upbringing, and life experience that must have contributed to it.

I might as well worry about being sued for the dangerous radiation coming out of the end of my laser sight, not to mention LEAD POISONING if I actually shoot someone.

 

[easyg]

I do get headaches when I see this kind of reasoning and think about the education, upbringing, and life experience that must have contributed to it.

Careful there buddy....personal attacks are not condoned on this here forum.

Besides, the same can be said in reverse....

Many would question the "education, upbringing, and life experience" of someone who doesn't consider how things might look in a court of law should they be required to justify a shooting.

 

[PennsyPlinker]

Okay easyg, let's look at what you just wrote. I am not sure how you arrive at your conclusion regarding my wondering "out loud" about how you process your thought. All those things I mention actually have a lot to do with how people process information and arrive at their worldview.

But first you accuse me of a personal attack.

Then you warn me that this is not acceptable behavior.

Then you "turn the tables" on me and do the very thing you just complained about!

So which is it? Is it really a personal attack? I don't think so, and I don't think you really think so either, unless you also think that it is okay for you to respond to a perceived personal attack by doing the very same thing. Even though it is against the rules. For me, anyway. Not you. See what I mean about your convoluted reasoning?

But let's get back to the original topic. Do you think that a light on the gun is any better or worse than a handheld light for the eyes of the bad guy in my house or yours? Do you really think it is going to make a difference to a judge, jury or prosecutor if you were holding the light in your hand instead of on the gun? Maybe you think it would be better to shoot someone in the dark, so he wouldn't be blinded right before the bullets tear through his flesh? Is that it? Do you think that shining the light in the eyes of an intruder does not give him a sporting chance and is unfair somehow?

Please, I am interested to hear your reasoning on how you consider that this whole thing might play out? Me? If someone is in my house without my permission at night (we'll assume at night, since we are talking about lights), I am going to do my very best to stack the deck in my favor so he gets shot and not me. What do you think about that easyg?

If you are really as concerned as you say about being held accountable for shining a light in the BG's eyes right before you shoot him for being in your house at night, perhaps you would be better off putting 911 into your speed dial and waiting for the cops to come and help you. You wouldn't want to be convicted of taking advantage of some poor soul whose only real fault was poor upbringing.

 

[easyg]

So which is it? Is it really a personal attack?...

We both already know the answer to this question, but I'm not the sort to go and run tattle-tale to the mods for one off remark.
It was just friendly advice to be careful how your remarks might be taken.
Without facial expressions and voice tones, internet communications can be easily misunderstood.

But let's get back to the original topic. Do you think that a light on the gun is any better or worse than a handheld light for the eyes of the bad guy in my house or yours?

Maybe you live in a really huge house that's dark as a coalmine, but my house is plenty lit even at night.
So for myself, I don't need any handheld or pistol mounted light inside my home, even at night.
And it's just me and wife (no kids), so I don't have any "friendlies" wondering around my house at night.

Do you really think it is going to make a difference to a judge, jury or prosecutor if you were holding the light in your hand instead of on the gun?

I think that it very well could....I'm willing to bet that lesser factors have swayed juries and judges in the past.
After all, consider the "assault weapon ban"....it outlawed weapons purely based upon the appearance of the weapon.
And that piece of legislation was written by LAWYERS.

 

[R&J]

In Wisconsin...

It's a felony to point a loaded weapon at anybody.

So, when an intruder breaks into your home, you commit a felony by pointing a loaded gun at him. And don't even think about pursuing the perp out of your house!

Wisconsin is not a stand your ground state, like Florida is. Here, we worry about the perp, and the quality of his childhood, and the breaks he never had... It's no wonder he broke into your home!

A couple years back, an elderly lady held an intruder at gun point, as she dialed 911. She was babysitting for four sleeping children at the time. The spin on the news was that she had committed a felony by pointing a loaded weapon at that (generically described) man! Police considered charges... Her gun was confiscated... The segment closed with footage of a bunch of grannies practicing Tae Kwon Do with a bunch of kiddies, at a mall academy, stating that alternatives to firearms are available to everybody!

In my mind, she deserved a medal! And give her freaking gun back!

I'd like to see a Stand Your Ground or Castle Doctrine adopted by every state. That would cut through 99% of this bottom feeding lawyer crap!

--Ray

 

[USMCDK]

:banghead:

A couple years back, an elderly lady held an intruder at gun point, as she dialed 911. She was babysitting for four sleeping children at the time. The spin on the news was that she had committed a felony by pointing a loaded weapon at that (generically described) man! Police considered charges... Her gun was confiscated... The segment closed with footage of a bunch of grannies practicing Tae Kwon Do with a bunch of kiddies, at a mall academy, stating that alternatives to firearms are available to everybody!

That just make me want to damn too late already did.

How ever I can see it from the perspective of others. There are lawyers and prosecutors out there that will do just that in a court of law, even in florida. I live in NH and we have the Castle law and still we can be convicted for even saving the lives of our loved ones and property. I am still all for my mounted light and if it comes down to the courts I will just have my LAWYERS, Military and one civilian, do all the talking for me. Don't get me wrong though, court is one of the toughest obsticles that anyone could go through.

Needless to say I am all for gun mounted lights. Like I said before and am now saying again.

I practiced/practice with my mounted like and I am comfortable with it. Others can seek out the "PROPER" training on using one as well. It all boils down to comfortability.

BTW there shouldn't be a perp when you are done as the two sayings go

"One shot One KILL!"

and

"A dead man tells no lies!"

 

[USMCDK]

I think this is a subject that is subjective in nature. I still say yes to light mounts

 

[socaldan]

Its the middle of the nite...your'e awakened by a loud noise...you grab the blaster in one hand and the maglite in the other and start a room to room clear...now...you come up to a door thats not "usualy" closed but it is now...HOW do yoy safely open it...what do YOU do?
I always have one hand free!
YES TO MOUNTED LIGHTS !!!!

 

[R&J]

Weapon lights and laser designators, properly used, are proven concepts, and an asset to any weapon platform.

Stick with what you know, or roll with the times.

--Ray

 

[jatkbay]

My opinion is that it depends on the situation: I do have a surefire on my .45 but I would not use it until I absolutely need it. I prefer to go with my handheld surefire approx 1 ft to my right of the gun thus making me not a target. If the perpetrator shoots at the light I have little to worry about but maybe a finger or to which can be put back on. Once I see muzzle flash though I can either fire the light to stun the perp which hopefully the first freehand light did or take him out but either way it is nice to have a gunlight.

Think about the zodiac killer in I think it was San Fran, Cali. He used to use a mag light taped to the bottom of his revolver, the main focus of his light was the center of impact. Not to point out the obvious but if it works for someone like him it should work for those of us that wish to keep the peace. Semper Fi.

 

[Dksimon]

I vote yes.

All the weapon mounted lights that I have ever dealt wth have been fairly easy to remove/attach. If you feel the need to have a light in one hand then take the light off and when you come to a situation where you need a free hand stick the light back on.

Maybe I am missing something but I think that is a viable option.

Any bedside gun of mine will have a mounted light.

SD was the second state to adopt the castle doctrine so I dont need to worry about the felony pointing a loaded weapon at them.

 

[slik_rik30]

I vote yes. I have a TLR-1 on my 229.

Yes I could be sued, no I won't point it at my kids, and yes I give away my "position" in my 1300sf home.

And don't forget tacti-cool.

 

[fins831]

would you consider using a mounted light over night sights, or both, or just night sights.

Its just many people talk about home defense and low to 0 visibility scenarios, and that night sights are bright enough to give away a position but some say they don't. Others discuss how a mounted light is more obvious but mounted Lights can hinder the sight of the perp when pointed at eyes.

However, I also hear negative things about night sights, claiming that they are no help in dark situations since you can't see what you are shooting and you shouldn't shoot what your can't see, and in a short range home defense scenarios or drills, people claim using sights can delay the time needed to shoot, and point and shoot is better if you are familiar with the weapon.

so, question becomes, mounted lights vs. night sights...or both?

 

[slik_rik30]

Fins, I have both on the P229, but once you bring on that LED there is no such thing as nite sights for some time. I would guess the same would be true after one muzzle flash. The chance of you finding those little green dots after a fireball went off 3ft from your face are slim to none.

 

[SiG357]

That would be a yes for HD.

I need to ID the target.

If I don't need the light, I just won't turn it on.

 

[XDKingslayer]

I think they are great. Especially for HD. I think the time and danger they can save during something as simple as a reload makes them worth it.

I'm pretty sure that trying to reload your pistol with a flashlight in your hand isn't going to be fun in a stressful situation.

 

[KenW.]

The first to night shoots I qualified on were using simple white-dot sights and the weaver method of holding a flashlight. I prefer being able to move the light independant from the weapon; then aagi, I've never had a weapon-light.

I just got an XD45. Those have rails so maybe I'll get a light and try it - Once agency policy allows weapon mounted lights.