Lightest pistol caliber carbine?

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MachIVshooter said:
Well, I tried to market a design to established manufacturers that beat the Sub 2000 by 3/4 pound without the use of hideous polymers, but non of those I dealt with were willing to negotiate a reasonable deal, basically wanted my IP for free. I may produce it myself when I finally have the CNC equipment (it took 160 hours to prototype on manual machines), but until then, your lightest option is gonna be the Kel-Tec.
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If that’s the gun I remember it would be an awesome little fun gun.
 
What I think someone should make is a roller delayed 9mm AR15. I think if you made a 9mm barrel with a barrel extension on it you could fit a roller locked mechanism inside the barrel extension. So instead of having locking lugs you would machine a roller recess inside the barrel extension, probably just one on the top would work fine. The bolt would have a locking roller on the top behind the bolt head. Since their are no channels in an AR upper for the roller to ride in, the bolt and carrier would need to be designed so it would retract the roller into the bolt during recoil and hold it in as it exits the extension. I think you could do a spring loaded wedge or cam to block the roller movement that would hit against the back face of the barrel extension to allow the roller to move only when the bolt head is in the barrel extension. The roller could also function to block the firing pin when not in battery. With delayed blowback in this manner you should be able to make the bolt and carrier only weigh a few ounces. The bolt would be steel but the carrier could be aluminum. Then use a standard 3 oz carbine buffer and spring. It would save at least a lb of reciprocating weight.
 
Elkins45 said:
The gun shipped with a carbine length tube and a solid carbine buffer marked 9mm. I was having badly swollen cases with loads that functioned just fine in my other guns.

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I swapped the carbine stock for an A2 rifle stock and completely filled a rifle buffer with lead. That cured the premature opening problem but it’s hardly a handy little carbine now.
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Are you over gassed? Would an adjustable gas block help and allow you to get rid of some of that weight?
 
Elkins45,

That one looks like it wasn’t fully chambered but that far backed out, I wouldn’t think the hammer could hit the firing pin.

I think there is more mass in my “regular” 9mm AR’s than my other blowback carbines like the Camp 9, for example.

Would be interesting to know more details about the cause/effect relationship though. Could be worth it’s own thread on the subject.
 
The mec tech ccu is pretty awesome. Mine in 460R shoots 460 and 45 acp flawlessly as long as it’s warm. In cool temps the mid range 45 acp rounds I shoot wont cycle reliably. I’d bump the powder charge but I have several thousand more to use up before then. Somewhere I switched from green to red dot (without reducing charge) and that should warm them up enough to work in all conditions. It’s extremely accurate. I’ve never patterned it, but there’s no issue whacking a 4” gong at 100 standing. It’s a bit heavy on a scale, but handles very good. The barrel is a beast. I’d put a “pencil” barrel on if that was a thing for 45 cal. Of all the guns I own, if I’m engaged with a target in poor conditions within 100 yards the mec tech on a 1911 would be my gun of choice with 460R, the 45 take too long to hit at 100.
No experience with a 9mm, but would be a good excuse to buy a 80% Glock lower. Mine uses a 1911, love it with a clean 2# trigger.
 
Elkins45 said:
The gun shipped with a carbine length tube and a solid carbine buffer marked 9mm. I was having badly swollen cases with loads that functioned just fine in my other guns.

index.php


I swapped the carbine stock for an A2 rifle stock and completely filled a rifle buffer with lead. That cured the premature opening problem but it’s hardly a handy little carbine now.
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You definitely have issues with your carbine and adding more mass is just making up for the issues. You need to take a better look at your BCG and chamber.
I have two AR9s, a carbine and a pistol. I run a Rock River 9 mm kinetic bufferin the carbine and a heavy buffer with a recoil spring spacer in the pistol. I’ve never had a problem.
 
jmorris said:
Elkins45,

That one looks like it wasn’t fully chambered but that far backed out, I wouldn’t think the hammer could hit the firing pin.

I think there is more mass in my “regular” 9mm AR’s than my other blowback carbines like the Camp 9, for example.

Would be interesting to know more details about the cause/effect relationship though. Could be worth it’s own thread on the subject.
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I also don’t think the gun could fire that far out of battery.

GunnyUSMC said:
You definitely have issues with your carbine and adding more mass is just making up for the issues. You need to take a better look at your BCG and chamber.
I have two AR9s, a carbine and a pistol. I run a Rock River 9 mm kinetic bufferin the carbine and a heavy buffer with a recoil spring spacer in the pistol. I’ve never had a problem.
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Yeah, there’s definitely an issue. This wasn’t just a single occurrence. My suspicion is the chamber is overly large and exceptionally smooth, allowing the case to ‘squirt’ backwards out of the chamber without getting much of a grip on the chamber wall. I have toyed with the idea of chucking it in my lathe and turning a couple of shallow grooves in the chamber to give it something to grab ahold of, but so far the extra mass seems to have done a sufficient job of keeping it closed until the pressure has dropped.
 
Elkins45 said:
I also don’t think the gun could fire that far out of battery.



Yeah, there’s definitely an issue. This wasn’t just a single occurrence. My suspicion is the chamber is overly large and exceptionally smooth, allowing the case to ‘squirt’ backwards out of the chamber without getting much of a grip on the chamber wall. I have toyed with the idea of chucking it in my lathe and turning a couple of shallow grooves in the chamber to give it something to grab ahold of, but so far the extra mass seems to have done a sufficient job of keeping it closed until the pressure has dropped.
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Why not see if the manufacture will replace the barrel?
 
dbmjr1 said:
Winchester also introduced the M-1 carbine. Perhaps my favorite PCC. With 20 round magazines available, and 30 round M-2 magazines interchangeable, The M-1 is a force to be reckoned with. At about five pounds, it's very light. My Ruger Blackhawk in .30 Carbine is the perfect compliment to my Carbine.
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If they weren't so darn expensive to purchase and feed more people would have one.

The biggest draw back, no way to mount a red dot. It's a pretty decent 100 yard PCC however. About 3 moa is all mine is good for but that's going to be normal for a PCC. They aren't really rifles in the normal bottle neck rifle vernacular.

I'm looking for a 9 mm though.
 
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Terminatorret said:
Concur with the Ruger 77/357. Potent and light...and accurate.
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Mine wasn't, even after about a dozed different load trials, a FF stock and a new barrel. I suspect there are some good ones out there though.

I finally determined that the action bolt was the culprit. When my rifle came back from Ruger they had that bolt cranked down to about 120 foot pounds. That's a bunch for a big slotted screw. Never was able to get it back to the required torque. I even looked for a hex or torx head bolt but no luck. Too many rifles out there to be messing around with that. It went down the road.
 
I guess we can't get 'em, but the H&K MP7 is 4.3 pounds. If you consider it a carbine, not a 'PDW', whatever that is.
 
Garandimal said:
Yep!

RUGER discontinued them for about a month... and then after the ass-paddlin' they received over it? They brought them back.

:D




GR
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I just looked them up. Not exactly cheap, are they? I could buy two Kel Tecs for the same price. Since I'm a lefty I think I would rather have a lever gun than a right-handed bolt action.
 
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