Lil gun

So I bought these exact components for a trial hunting load. Couple things I'm curious about. Because this is a high nitro powder is a mag primer required/recommended. Second curious thing is the speed vs charge weight. The test was done in a 10" barrel. Is the charge weight vs velocity more dynamic in a longer barrel like 16 or 20".

 

I guess reading is hard for some. WINCHESTER SMALL PISTOL MAGNUM

 

Thanks for displaying your depth of knowledge for all... your blocked...

 

Check the nitro content by % and if it is higher than something like TiteGroup with the same or lower % retardant then I think a standard primer is fine. If it’s got more retardant switch to magnum.

 

I've been doing my research and it's normally written in the articles if mag is preferred or gives better sd's but nothing.... Longshot on the next page says mag prefered.

 

That's a pretty good method. Should also work for figuring out what to do with non-toxic primers....which are anemic at best. I've found the best use for them is range ammo in small case calibers using titegroup.

 

Which book is that?

 

That doesn't necessarily mean it's required... just what the testers used for their data set. 2400 and IMR4227, among other powders... some swear by Magnum primers, some don't.

Personally, I wouldn't use a Magnum primer, I don't with TiteGroup, but I think Geo has a better idea.

 

FWIW, friend of mine in St Louis says no Magnum primer. I know for a fact that he has burned at least a metric ton of Lil Gun in his life (give or take...) ...says it's not hard to ignite AT ALL.

 

Well that ain't a cheap book!

 

Nice Flex!...not a cheap book.

 

I use a magnum primer just because it's a slow ball powder. I find the burn of the powder is more complete for me.

I know it's been beaten to death but I'll say it in case you haven't heard about it.
Lil'Gun generates a lot of heat. When I shot it in my M686 the barrel and cylinders heated up very quickly and it got hot very hot.
Freedom Arms reported forcing cone damage in as little as 100 rounds of hot .357 Magnum ammo using Lil'Gun.
I decided to error on the side of safety and stopped using Lil'Gun for revolution for ammo but still use it for 180gr loads for my Marlin Levergun.
Lil'Gun generates 100 fps more velocity with a 180gr bullet in the .357 with almost identical SD and ES numbers and accuracy.

 

Another option if you dont have small pistol magnum? Use a small rifle. Rifle cartridges are a wee bit higher in pressure and volume of powder to light off. And guys been using them for stuff like 9mm Major loadings for a long time.

 

I paid less for this one than the jacketed accuracy with cast. One I still need.
https://primersoutdoor.com/product/propellant-profiles-sixth-edition-by-wolfe-publishing/

 

I planned on only making a small batch and mostly for heavies in my marlin. I've herd of the issues with some crazy damage claims. I have a few 550s left so I guess that's what I'll try before srp.

 

Well when using Lil Gun with rifle or mag pistol primers with 22 Hornet there is less than 20 FPS difference in otherwise identical loads with SRP being slightly hotter. Not sure in 357 though as I do not use it there.

 

In my experiments with Lilgun in 45 Colt, Mag vs Std primers didn’t seem to matter for accuracy, velocity or POI.

But ES and SD’s were slightly, very slightly less for Mag primers. I didn’t run a T-test for statistical significance lol, but I remember thinking it wasn’t enough difference to make a difference. And dang, does the barrel get hot compared to 2400, AA9, etc.

@AJC1 One more opinion that you were looking for, anyway

 

All good advice everyone.
@AJC1, I'm glad to hear you're using Lil'Gun for heavy bullet Marlin loads. I think it shines there.

All loads were made with the same bottle of Lil'Gun and H110.
All loads were made using CCI-550 primers.
All loads were shot on the same day and in sets of 10 rounds and were shot from a clean fouled barrel.
The gun used was a Marlin .357 Magnum Carbine Levergun.

With a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet Lil'Gun generated an honest 1584 fps
With a 180gr Hornady XTP bullet W296/H110 generated 1495 fps

With a 180gr Cast Performance WFNGC bullet Lil'Gun delivered 1657 fps
With a 180gr Cast Performance WFNGC bullet W296/H110 generated 1547 fps

Unfortunately at the time I didn't have any 2400 to add to the comparison.

 

I have the 2400 to compare but never owned or shot 110. Probably the only mag powder I don't use. Now I have an excuse to buy 180 xtps...

 

I use a lot of W296 because if I'm building a magnum load I want a magnum load. The other 2 powders I use are HS-6 and W231. If I want a downloaded .357 I use HS-6.

My powder trinity is W231/HP-38, W540/HS-6 and W296/H110 and I can load every handgun cartridge I wish to load.
(as opposed to the original powder trinity of Bullseye, Unique and 2400)

 

I love me some #9. Plenty fast.

 

No.11FS is supposed to be W296’s more civilized twin brother, WC297. I keep thinking about giving it a try, then my arthritis acts up and I decide different.

 

Want to see who gets around to it first... I'll give you the advantage of every other powder I'm testing first and longshot that I don't have yet.