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Limitations of .357 Magnum

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by el Godfather, May 17, 2020.

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  1. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    It's not as clear as you suggest that a 5-shot 357 revolver has an advantage over a 357 Sig / 10mm auto. A 357 Sig will handle up to 180 grain bullets and who knows, maybe somebody has loaded heavier. Then, as you suggest, a 10mm will easily exceed the 357 Magnum as well, being the perfect example of an auto that can equal/exceed whatever a 5-shot 357 revolver can do. And the autos hold 2X+ the rounds that a 5-shot revolver will.

    Sure you can get a SA trigger on a 357 Sig or 10mm. It's called a 1911.

    One could run 40 S&W snake-shot rounds in their 10mm if desired (with or without changing barrels), and someone has probably made their own for 10mm. http://libertyfoxdefense.com/improvised-10mm-snakeshot-for-a-woods-gun/

    The 357 Sig is an accurate round, and can shoot as well as a revolver.

    357 Sig: https://www.shootingillustrated.com/articles/2019/7/19/converting-guns-to-357-sig-testing-options/

    38/357 Revolver: https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/review-smith-wesson-model-19-classic-revolver/358104

    I love the 357 Magnum. Have several and carry it CCW. But they aren't magical. No round is. And when it comes to firepower, an auto outdoes it with ease.
     
  2. xphunter

    xphunter Member

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    Barrel never actually touches the barrel-the shroud connects to the frame.
    Chris Rhodes/Bayside Custom Gunworks!
    http://www.baysidecustomgunworks.net/franken-ruger.html
     
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  3. xphunter

    xphunter Member

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    I really doubt a semi-auto is going to be able to shoot as good as a revolver from the bench or from field shooting positions at 100 yards or further.
    I like my semi-autos, but they don't have the bench or field accuracy that my revolvers do.
     
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  4. mcb

    mcb Member

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    357 Sig is a cool cartridge especially in an self-defense anti-personnel round but as bullet weight goes up it falls well behind 357 Mag and 10mm Auto due to limited case volume. With a 180gr bullet 357 Sig struggles to get past 500 ft-lbs. 357 Magnum and 10mm Auto can push a 180 gr bullet to over 700 ft-lbs fairly easily.
     
  5. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Accuracy is often gun and ammo specific so using your own guns with the ammo you used is not necessarily the best yardstick.

    Not many people shoot a handgun beyond 50 yards, except in hunting or competition. But semi-autos and revolvers shoot on par at 25 and 50 yards, so why would one not expect that same degree of accuracy to hold beyond that range?

    I Ransom Rest handguns at 25 yards, and see wheelguns and semi-autos as being pretty equal with factory ammo - even when comparing the same calibers in the same gun, e.g. 38/357 and 9mm in a Ruger Blackhawk convertible.

    My smallest groups at 25 yards easily go to the semi-auto calibers, and specifically handloads. Now, I haven't shot nearly as many revolvers as I have semi-autos at that distance, and I expect that as the round count on revolvers goes up, that I'll see more small groups with revolvers. Here, as yourself, I'm only testing the guns I have.

    You pose an interesting comparison, and you might be right. I'll wait actual data, because there are risks associated with assuming.

    Custom built bullseye pistols can shoot 10 shots under 1.0" at 50 yards. Custom built wheelgun might do as well. Again, I'll wait for data.
     
  6. xphunter

    xphunter Member

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    Custom built wheel guns can do better than under an inch at 100 yards (But I have not shot beyond a 6 -shot group), and I wasn't using a ransom rest.
    If I can shoot sub MOA at 500 yards, I don't doubt a 10-shot group under 2" at 100. 1" at 50 is a 2 MOA group.
    I have never shot a 10-shot or a 12-shot group at 50 yards or at a 100 yards with my revolvers.
    My hunting revolvers are zeroed at 100 yards the majority of the time. I would only shoot at 50 or 75 to confirm POI.
    Shooting from a seated position off Bog Gear doing some practicing with mixed brass several years ago on some steel.
    Goofing and practicing on steel.
    Wind really moves handgun bullets around when you stretch distance.
    https://www.longrangehunting.com/th...357-magnum-franken-ruger.187676/#post-1320245
     
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  7. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

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    I just looked on Youtube and the Kahr Firearms Group has the episodes on their channel.
    You can just look up Big Iron or look up Max Prasac and you'll find them. Some are deer and hogs, but some are some really huge animals.
    It's not hunting, he tells you that up front. They're testing revolver cartridges and bullets on live flesh. It's worth a watch.

    Here's the episode with the cape buffalo.

     
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  8. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    The 357 sig, while it is a cool round, isn't in the 357 mag class. Yeah they both do 180 great loads but the 357sig does it at 1000fps.......vs 357 mag at 1400fps. That's a huge, massive difference. That's not even in the ballpark of the same.

    Revolvers are usually more accurate than autos because the barrel doesn't move ever. In autos that have a fixed barrel it's about the same
     
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  9. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Would love to see the source for that since I can't recall seeing that comparison in a centerfire caliber gun. Thanks in advance.
     
  10. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    That is a very generalizing statement to make...
     
  11. Antihero

    Antihero Member

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    In my experience my hi point, while a crap gun otherwise, is fairly accurate and has a fixed barrel. Bryco 48 is the same.

    Both are on the lower end of price and quality even as well
     
  12. GRIZ22

    GRIZ22 Member

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    A 4" 357, GP100 or L frame is the most versatile handgun made IMO. I can understand wanting to go bigger for anything bigger than deer or black bear.

    I do remember reading a story written by Peter Hathaway Capstick in the 70s where he killed a cape buffalo with a 357 though.
     
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  13. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    So no data, just a generalization. Okay.

    Whether the barrel is fixed to the frame or moves with every shot does not predict how well a gun shoots. There are too many other variables involved. Accuracy is usually gun and ammo specific. Check out any accuracy test with gun reviews and you'll find a wide variation in group size with the same gun.
     
  14. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    It is made with respect to comparing a gun with a fixed barrel to a gun with a barrel that moves with every shot. I can't recall an accuracy test between a revolver and a semi-auto, for example. And I can't think of a gun that is made two ways, one with the barrel fixed to the frame and one with a moving barrel. In fact, in most cases it would be an odd comparison because accuracy is gun and ammo dependent.
     
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  15. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    FWIW, the concept of a free floating barrel on a revolver has no scientific basis.
     
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  16. HB

    HB Member

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    On a gun that has its sights fixed to the slide, yes, it literally does mean that. Thats what makes a dedicated bullseye pistol. The lockup of barrel and slide are more precise than a rack grade 1911 and the barrel points to the bull more often.

    My experience is revolvers are typically more accurate than semi’s (excluding .22s like Ruger MKIII vs Single Six).

    Typically with a trail gun I dont really worry about “firepower” per say. And if you rebored my 357 to 10mm I wouldnt notice.

    I guess what I’m saying I for what I use a 357 for, a revolver in 357 is well suited for. If I have to fill the niche of a glock in 10mm I would just use my g19.

    Its the AR vs 870 argument. Yes, the AR is better for defense. But an 870 is fine for defense and can be used for squirrels, deer, and clays.

    Plus then Id have to bend over to pick up my brass after shooting cans at a distant creek bank!
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
  17. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    Ya lost me.
     
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  18. HB

    HB Member

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    With very few exceptions semi autos have the sights on the slide. Compounded with barrel to slide fit, this results in less accuracy than a fixed barreled gun. I would assume slide fit is more important but ive never built a wadgun.
     
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  19. CraigC
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    CraigC Member

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    While there are exceptions, I would say in general revolvers are measurably more accurate than semi-autos, or at least service autos anyway. IMHO, those that balk at that statement have probably never bench tested a handgun. I have yet to meet a service auto that could do 1" at 25yds but it's a rare revolver that won't. I have some that will do it at 50yds. Not to mention that service auto sights and triggers are more of a challenge to shoot with much precision. They're combat guns with combat sights and combat triggers. This is the issue I have with guns like the Glock 20 being pressed into service as hunting/trail guns.
     
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  20. fxvr5

    fxvr5 Member

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    This type of statement requires evidence.

    Some of my semi-autos shoot much smaller groups than my revolvers. Thus, my data is not consistent with your statement.
     
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  21. el Godfather

    el Godfather Member

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    Very nice video.

    After watching it I get the urge to invest in a custom revolver with long barrel and super hot 357 missiles in it and head off to Africa.

    may be one day I will do that with my son when he is 18.
     
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  22. el Godfather

    el Godfather Member

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    Just a reminder please. This is not a thread on semi-auto and revolver comparison even though an interesting topic.

    We were getting some wonderful inputs on 357s, custom guns, etc.

    Those interested in semi-rev debate can make a new thread or take the conversation private because otherwise it will corrupt this thread with irrelevant info.
    Thanks
     
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  23. WisBorn

    WisBorn Member

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    I feel the 357 mag is the best all around handgun. For SD/HD you can choose a load that meets your needs. If over penetration is a concern, load it with 38 special or +p loads.
    For target shooting 38 FMJs or wad cutters are great fun.
    The 357 is a great hike carry handgun. Two legged threats are greater than four legged threats so the lighter weight revolver is nicer to carry than a big hunting handgun.

    I have never hunted with a 357, but know several people that have hunted deer with it successfully. My handgun hunting experience is limited to 44 & 41 magnum N frames and SRH.

    When Wisconsin started to allow handgun hunting the 357 mag was the minimum for deer, they have changed their rules since then but I think it is a good starting point.
     
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  24. mcb

    mcb Member

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    I agree that 357 Mag is probably one of the better all around revolver rounds, a Jack-of-all-Trades. But a Jack-of-a-Trades is typically Master-of-None and this is why I don't use it any more. My first revolver was a 357 Magnum and I bought it because of that perceived flexibility. In the years since I have acquired a fair number more revolvers and now 357 Mag has fallen to the wayside because I am no longer limited to one revolver and so for any particular use I have a revolver in a cartridge that is more capable or better suited for that specific use is selected rather than 357 Mag.
     
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  25. 460Shooter

    460Shooter Member

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    Depending on what guns you are comparing a 357 may have more limited ammo capacity than autoloaders chambered in cartridges with similar ballistic characteristics.

    I wouldn’t hesitate to take a well aimed shot in anything up to a mule deer sized animal. Anything bigger and I want a bigger cartridge, whether it’s being shot from a handgun or a rifle.

    For self defense, I think the noise and flash may be more of a detriment to the shooter than other cartridges, but that may not matter much when you’re about to be murdered.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
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