List you major concerns about the way things are going in the good old USA.
- Thread starter sonny
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I would agree that the public school system is less than ideal, but I don't think that they influence kids as much as people think they do. I think we learn from many sources, and we pick and choose our beliefs along the way. It may take 20-30 years, but it will happen.
Bad, or absentee, parenting (which is rampant) combined with a socialist leaning educational system is another, far more serious, matter.
My greatest concern however, is the lack of critical thinking skills that is prevalent today. No one seems to question anything. Gun control is one of the better examples of that. Very few, if any, GC laws are logical or effective.
Liberals say that the US can't afford tax relief - as if the money dissapears from the face of the Earth if the government isn't on the receiving end of the cash flow. Once again...no thought or logic involved.
Oh well.....back to the cubicle.
Bad, or absentee, parenting (which is rampant) combined with a socialist leaning educational system is another, far more serious, matter.
My greatest concern however, is the lack of critical thinking skills that is prevalent today. No one seems to question anything. Gun control is one of the better examples of that. Very few, if any, GC laws are logical or effective.
Liberals say that the US can't afford tax relief - as if the money dissapears from the face of the Earth if the government isn't on the receiving end of the cash flow. Once again...no thought or logic involved.
Oh well.....back to the cubicle.
grampster
Contributing Member
Well, there is a lot of wisdom and recognition of mostly the same things expressed here and I agree with them. The question then is......not what are the problems, but how do we get the rest of the sheeple to recognize that there is one.
I think basically we are doomed, as people are quick to turn their eyes away or plug their ears. History proves every civilization that was, disapears after a time. We will be no different. We will fall apart because we wallowed in luxury and became selfish and ignorant and narrow in our focus and afraid of our own shadows.
Now I'll throw one more wrench into the gears. The women's liberation movement was the greatest single thing that brought our culture down. It's stated course was to bring down the 2 parent family, to require women to work in the workplace rather than the home as it elevated career to a higher value than motherhood and render sexuality into a non issue that is a pleasure based human function rather than a division of labor. The flooding of the market by women who were coerced into the workplace by their "sisters" caused an increase in market demand, which increased production, which increased prices, which increased inflation, which increased the necessity for women to work, which raised the standard of living to require optional things like boats, bikes, 2nd homes, etc to the level of must have rather than may have or not have, created the day care phenomenon, that stultified the "civilizing" of children ie: not teaching them the difference between right and wrong and the denigration of the value of a two parent household. The same gurus of the women's lib movement caused the sexual revolution and the PC movement along with a value neutral institutional educational system that lends moral equivalancy to every human behavior no matter how disgusting and pays more attention to neo modern drivel and denigrates the wisdom of the ages.
Before you flame me, you must be at least 60 years old and have paid a modicum of attention to the "way things were" prior to the 60's and what has happened since then. Your opinion is of no value unless you bring these qualifications to the table as you have no basis for which to criticize my remarks other than what others have told you.....not what you have observed yourself. One caveat: Things were never perfect and I understand that!
grampster
I think basically we are doomed, as people are quick to turn their eyes away or plug their ears. History proves every civilization that was, disapears after a time. We will be no different. We will fall apart because we wallowed in luxury and became selfish and ignorant and narrow in our focus and afraid of our own shadows.
Now I'll throw one more wrench into the gears. The women's liberation movement was the greatest single thing that brought our culture down. It's stated course was to bring down the 2 parent family, to require women to work in the workplace rather than the home as it elevated career to a higher value than motherhood and render sexuality into a non issue that is a pleasure based human function rather than a division of labor. The flooding of the market by women who were coerced into the workplace by their "sisters" caused an increase in market demand, which increased production, which increased prices, which increased inflation, which increased the necessity for women to work, which raised the standard of living to require optional things like boats, bikes, 2nd homes, etc to the level of must have rather than may have or not have, created the day care phenomenon, that stultified the "civilizing" of children ie: not teaching them the difference between right and wrong and the denigration of the value of a two parent household. The same gurus of the women's lib movement caused the sexual revolution and the PC movement along with a value neutral institutional educational system that lends moral equivalancy to every human behavior no matter how disgusting and pays more attention to neo modern drivel and denigrates the wisdom of the ages.
Before you flame me, you must be at least 60 years old and have paid a modicum of attention to the "way things were" prior to the 60's and what has happened since then. Your opinion is of no value unless you bring these qualifications to the table as you have no basis for which to criticize my remarks other than what others have told you.....not what you have observed yourself. One caveat: Things were never perfect and I understand that!
grampster
Glock Glockler
Member
The root cause of all this bad stuff that people mention is a spiritual decay that is taking place among individiuals, and the effects can be measured on a National scale.
- What is the spiritual state of one who would use the arm of government to punish those who they believe to be sinful or immoral? Are they, through govt, trying to play God by dishing out punishment? Or are they really just projecting their own sinfullness onto others, but they don't have the courage to clean up their own act by themselves, so they have to hire the govt to do it?
- What is the spiritual state of one who doesn't mind mass theivery and/or extortion of their fellow citizens, whether or not they stand to profit from it?
- What is the spiritual state of one who is so comsumed by the persuit of material, that they neglect the human needs that are present? I can't count the number of couples I know that both work, and send their kids to garbage day care of govt schools (the same thing for different age kids) so they can afford to keep up with the Jones' in buying things.
That's it in a nutshell: people being sick on an individual level, and the effects are manifested large-scale. Help cure people one at a time and you'll help the nation.
- What is the spiritual state of one who would use the arm of government to punish those who they believe to be sinful or immoral? Are they, through govt, trying to play God by dishing out punishment? Or are they really just projecting their own sinfullness onto others, but they don't have the courage to clean up their own act by themselves, so they have to hire the govt to do it?
- What is the spiritual state of one who doesn't mind mass theivery and/or extortion of their fellow citizens, whether or not they stand to profit from it?
- What is the spiritual state of one who is so comsumed by the persuit of material, that they neglect the human needs that are present? I can't count the number of couples I know that both work, and send their kids to garbage day care of govt schools (the same thing for different age kids) so they can afford to keep up with the Jones' in buying things.
That's it in a nutshell: people being sick on an individual level, and the effects are manifested large-scale. Help cure people one at a time and you'll help the nation.
Sergeant Bob
Member
I'm pretty much in agreement with Jim March on this, although I think it begins much earlier. During my career in the USAF, I attended a psychology course where I saw a film called "What you are is what you were when" , by a Dr. from Texas (can't remember his name). In it he stated that most people's core morals and values are established by the age of seven. I believe this to be true.
If parents teach good values to their children before they are subject to the indoctrination camps, most will grow up to be decent human beings in spite of their training.
Lack of good parenting is the biggest danger to our society.
Look at yourself. Are you a decent, moral person? Where did that come from? Now, look at your parents.
If parents teach good values to their children before they are subject to the indoctrination camps, most will grow up to be decent human beings in spite of their training.
Lack of good parenting is the biggest danger to our society.
Look at yourself. Are you a decent, moral person? Where did that come from? Now, look at your parents.
......make perfect senseI'll go with the indoctrination theory.
Though I believe that if shopping malls, theaters and bowling alleys begin to explode, the feel good can't we all just get along political correctness movement will take a distant back seat to the nation's "less sensitive side" which will emerge.
Though I believe that if shopping malls, theaters and bowling alleys begin to explode, the feel good can't we all just get along political correctness movement will take a distant back seat to the nation's "less sensitive side" which will emerge.
spartacus2002
Member
Education and critical thinking. If you don't have those, you are just a bacterium with legs.
You gotta teach the kids both what to think and HOW to think. I went to a pretty good private Catholic school, and the history and economics classes were absolutely worthless. Unfortunately, those are the classes that you need the most as a foundation for understanding life and human interaction.
We could cite a million other ways the US is going down the tubes, but this is the key.
You gotta teach the kids both what to think and HOW to think. I went to a pretty good private Catholic school, and the history and economics classes were absolutely worthless. Unfortunately, those are the classes that you need the most as a foundation for understanding life and human interaction.
We could cite a million other ways the US is going down the tubes, but this is the key.
longeyes
member
grampster
Not so quick. Sometimes a surfeit of sheep brings out a great season of wolves.
We are, no doubt, headed for some kind of social and cultural crisis, in part at least precipitated by what you cite here, but when it becomes clear enough that survival is at stake, not just annoyance or inconvenience, some transformations are going to take place and people are going to start sorting themselves out. I wouldn't place any bets just yet. What doesn't avail for survival may come to an abrupt and inglorious end.
Not so quick. Sometimes a surfeit of sheep brings out a great season of wolves.
We are, no doubt, headed for some kind of social and cultural crisis, in part at least precipitated by what you cite here, but when it becomes clear enough that survival is at stake, not just annoyance or inconvenience, some transformations are going to take place and people are going to start sorting themselves out. I wouldn't place any bets just yet. What doesn't avail for survival may come to an abrupt and inglorious end.
ravinraven
Member
Jim March is right on!
Folks, it is education that is our biggest problem and the only way to cure all the other problems listed here. Jim March, UnknownSailor and a few others point that out.
By education, I mean REAL learning about American values, family values, how the constitution is supposed to work and on and on. I do not mean that we need more hand outs to Union bigwigs so they can water down history and peddal political correctness [cultural Marxism] to unsuspecting kids.
I doubt that government school education can be turned around...peacefully. There has to be an organization that can educate the government school victims and try to get them to rejoin the liberty lovers of old. How can this be done? CDs, VCR tapes, internet, lecture series, talk radio. Who knows? Can we create video games that teach truth as the kids wander through some maze. Can the "violent" games use political correctness promoters for targets? Can we run essay contests where good prizes are awarded for politically accurate work?
A plan must be made and enacted that will roll back the CRAP that passes for education today as steadily and maybe unobtrusively as the forces operated that gave us today's CRAP to start with.
I know what needs to be done. I don't know how to get it rolling. Is there anyone out there who does or who has something started that others can tag into?
We have the least educated student body in the world these days.
ravinraven
Folks, it is education that is our biggest problem and the only way to cure all the other problems listed here. Jim March, UnknownSailor and a few others point that out.
By education, I mean REAL learning about American values, family values, how the constitution is supposed to work and on and on. I do not mean that we need more hand outs to Union bigwigs so they can water down history and peddal political correctness [cultural Marxism] to unsuspecting kids.
I doubt that government school education can be turned around...peacefully. There has to be an organization that can educate the government school victims and try to get them to rejoin the liberty lovers of old. How can this be done? CDs, VCR tapes, internet, lecture series, talk radio. Who knows? Can we create video games that teach truth as the kids wander through some maze. Can the "violent" games use political correctness promoters for targets? Can we run essay contests where good prizes are awarded for politically accurate work?
A plan must be made and enacted that will roll back the CRAP that passes for education today as steadily and maybe unobtrusively as the forces operated that gave us today's CRAP to start with.
I know what needs to be done. I don't know how to get it rolling. Is there anyone out there who does or who has something started that others can tag into?
We have the least educated student body in the world these days.
ravinraven
Jim March
Member
Let me clarify a couple of things: sure, home-schooling is the answer for OUR kids, but it's not "the answer for society" because with schooling "free" (or rather, payment is forced), most parents will just take advantage of the "free" schools.
Vouchers are, I think, an excellent "first step" and "politically feasible" today. With a "free market" for educational services, schools will open up that are NOT "indoctrination camps".
At present, just calling the schools "socialist indoctrination camps" isn't even adequate to describe how bad they are.
What the schools are specifically doing is two-fold: they're putting one set of ideas into the kid's heads (about "fairness" and "sharing" and all that touchy-feely stuff in a very general way) while deliberately leaving out info on how our government actually works.
High school "civics" class in particular is a joke. There's no info on how to do actual political activism as a concerned citizen who is part of the government. This is not accidental, it's quite deliberate.
The net result is to graduate "sheeple" who have a rough general idea that people with "touchy feely ideas" are "good", but have no clue beyond that.
OK, let me show you a classic case of how screwed up the results are:
Late last year, I attended a two-day series of speeches on "Open Government", various sunshine laws, put on by the California First Amendment Coalition at San Jose State University over a weekend. CFAC is a journalist's lobbying group and one morning was dedicated to a series of speeches by "amateur activists" who had made practical use of document requests, open meeting laws and the like. I was one of the three amateurs, the other two were an environmentalist and a guy who makes life hard on school boards.
So during the lunch break, I went downstairs to the campus cafeteria for munchies. While standing in line, I had my ID badge on with the "OpenGov02" logo on it. One of the college kids asked what that was about, and I explained in brief about how important it is to have access to government documents and proceedings, and how the laws in that area need to get beefed up.
He had absolutely NO idea that government documents are public, asked why they should be public, and seemed deeply disturbed that they were.
And this dude's in COLLEGE.
What's wrong with this picture, folks?
That's the result of "high school" and prior "education".
It also explains why public records have to be pried out of official hands with a friggin' crowbar most of the time: with so few activists digging, they know they can screw people and not get public criticism.
This is deliberate. It cannot possibly be accidental.
Vouchers are, I think, an excellent "first step" and "politically feasible" today. With a "free market" for educational services, schools will open up that are NOT "indoctrination camps".
At present, just calling the schools "socialist indoctrination camps" isn't even adequate to describe how bad they are.
What the schools are specifically doing is two-fold: they're putting one set of ideas into the kid's heads (about "fairness" and "sharing" and all that touchy-feely stuff in a very general way) while deliberately leaving out info on how our government actually works.
High school "civics" class in particular is a joke. There's no info on how to do actual political activism as a concerned citizen who is part of the government. This is not accidental, it's quite deliberate.
The net result is to graduate "sheeple" who have a rough general idea that people with "touchy feely ideas" are "good", but have no clue beyond that.
OK, let me show you a classic case of how screwed up the results are:
Late last year, I attended a two-day series of speeches on "Open Government", various sunshine laws, put on by the California First Amendment Coalition at San Jose State University over a weekend. CFAC is a journalist's lobbying group and one morning was dedicated to a series of speeches by "amateur activists" who had made practical use of document requests, open meeting laws and the like. I was one of the three amateurs, the other two were an environmentalist and a guy who makes life hard on school boards
.So during the lunch break, I went downstairs to the campus cafeteria for munchies. While standing in line, I had my ID badge on with the "OpenGov02" logo on it. One of the college kids asked what that was about, and I explained in brief about how important it is to have access to government documents and proceedings, and how the laws in that area need to get beefed up.
He had absolutely NO idea that government documents are public, asked why they should be public, and seemed deeply disturbed that they were.
And this dude's in COLLEGE.
What's wrong with this picture, folks?
That's the result of "high school" and prior "education".
It also explains why public records have to be pried out of official hands with a friggin' crowbar most of the time: with so few activists digging, they know they can screw people and not get public criticism.
This is deliberate. It cannot possibly be accidental.
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
More astute comments Jim .. thx ......with ya.
spartacus2002
Member
I read a great quote from a govt study of education in the early '80s, words to the effect that if a foreign power had imposed the current US educational system on us, we would consider it an act of war.
ravinraven
Member
teaching about open government
Jim March's college student who didn't know about open government is only one of the millions out there. This deliberate failure of government schools to teach the young that the government is open and what the Bill Of Rights means may be a great place to start REAL teaching efforts.
I have met many people with the same ignorance. I have met veterans of WWII and Korea who do not know about open government. One vet was sure "they" were going to come and get me for some opinion that I expressed in a letter-to-the editor.
But the total ignorance of young people is alarming.
I remember reading at least twenty years ago the results of an opinion poll where a pollster had people read the Declaration of Independence and then comment upon it. About 90% of the "polled" called it a subversive document and did not recognize that it was the DOI. Fantastic.
With proper REAL education about our history our covernment our constitution, especially the BOR, our court system and culture I believe all the concerns listed in this thread would fade. Those concerns were not a part of our problems back when REAL education existed.
Is there someone working on this REAL education idea?? Should we, the concerned, start it here?
ravinraven
Jim March's college student who didn't know about open government is only one of the millions out there. This deliberate failure of government schools to teach the young that the government is open and what the Bill Of Rights means may be a great place to start REAL teaching efforts.
I have met many people with the same ignorance. I have met veterans of WWII and Korea who do not know about open government. One vet was sure "they" were going to come and get me for some opinion that I expressed in a letter-to-the editor.
But the total ignorance of young people is alarming.
I remember reading at least twenty years ago the results of an opinion poll where a pollster had people read the Declaration of Independence and then comment upon it. About 90% of the "polled" called it a subversive document and did not recognize that it was the DOI. Fantastic.
With proper REAL education about our history our covernment our constitution, especially the BOR, our court system and culture I believe all the concerns listed in this thread would fade. Those concerns were not a part of our problems back when REAL education existed.
Is there someone working on this REAL education idea?? Should we, the concerned, start it here?
ravinraven
grampster
Contributing Member
Longeyes,
Your comments explain what I call the "Dog crapping in your yard" syndrome. My involvement in grass roots politics and activism at the township level, county level and in neighborhood associations has taught me that until the "Dog craps in your yard" most folks are not very concerned about whether the dog is crapping in everybody elses yard. They complain and sympathize but rarely do anything. I hope you are right, but I have seen evidence that many citizens are quite apathetic and continually wait for the other guy to do what needs to be done.
With respect to Mr. March and others, I am in total agreement with the "Institutional Public Schools" I have posted comments at TAC and here about how the way to change public education is to find folks of a like mind and take over the local school boards and quietly but surely demand the administrators begin to properly educate our children in reading, history, government. The other subjects are important to be sure, but if a kid is taught how to read and inculcated with the best of our American Culture, he will be a valuable addition in keeping us strong and free. To know about science, math etc will not be much value if we lose our freedom.
grampster
Your comments explain what I call the "Dog crapping in your yard" syndrome. My involvement in grass roots politics and activism at the township level, county level and in neighborhood associations has taught me that until the "Dog craps in your yard" most folks are not very concerned about whether the dog is crapping in everybody elses yard. They complain and sympathize but rarely do anything. I hope you are right, but I have seen evidence that many citizens are quite apathetic and continually wait for the other guy to do what needs to be done.
With respect to Mr. March and others, I am in total agreement with the "Institutional Public Schools" I have posted comments at TAC and here about how the way to change public education is to find folks of a like mind and take over the local school boards and quietly but surely demand the administrators begin to properly educate our children in reading, history, government. The other subjects are important to be sure, but if a kid is taught how to read and inculcated with the best of our American Culture, he will be a valuable addition in keeping us strong and free. To know about science, math etc will not be much value if we lose our freedom.
grampster
The systematic eradication of the Middle Class, not by design, but by indifference and greed.
As per grampster, I'll hit 70 this year and from personal observation, can tell you that this country is rotting away under our feet like an iced up river in the spring.
I've read through this whole list to see if anybody else brought this topic up, saw none, so will expound.
When NAFTA was proposed, it was "only the blue collar" jobs that would be lost - we would be the new intellectual powerhouse of the world.
Well, the factories left, $18 an hour millwrights went to minimum wage if they were lucky, and had their property taxes double as the taxable base disappeared as well.
Then came the H1Bs and L-1s. Hi tech folks from India and elsewhere. Supoosed to be paid same wages as US nationals but the companies got around that by putting the people on salary, working them 60-80 hours a week and billing the client for 40. (Personal experience) Guess who started getting hired ALL the time? They killed the computer programming trade in less than 10 years. I imagine the same is going on with engineers and other hi-tech positions.
A blind eye is turned towards this invasion of illegal aliens who push the wage base down even further.
Now they are even "outsourcing" low-tech customer service jobs ("call 800 . . . for info") for chrissakes.
We are going to end up like South America with the rich isolating themselves behind armed guards and gates and the restless underemployed milling around outside.
The politicians have tax-payer guaranteed pensions instead of 401Ks, so they insulate themselves from their folly. The CEOs have their golden parachutes while their employees get their pink slips.
Wonder why the economy is stagnating? This is a consumer economy and the corporations have laid off all their customers. You can't sell to those who have no money. It doesn't matter if Chinese TVs at WallyWorld are cheap if I have only a subsistence wage.
"Global Competition" means "Who will work the cheapest?" We are finding out, slowly but surely.
And by and large, outside of a few boards like this, nobody is aware, or if they are, gives a damn.
<rant off>
As per grampster, I'll hit 70 this year and from personal observation, can tell you that this country is rotting away under our feet like an iced up river in the spring.
I've read through this whole list to see if anybody else brought this topic up, saw none, so will expound.
When NAFTA was proposed, it was "only the blue collar" jobs that would be lost - we would be the new intellectual powerhouse of the world.
Well, the factories left, $18 an hour millwrights went to minimum wage if they were lucky, and had their property taxes double as the taxable base disappeared as well.
Then came the H1Bs and L-1s. Hi tech folks from India and elsewhere. Supoosed to be paid same wages as US nationals but the companies got around that by putting the people on salary, working them 60-80 hours a week and billing the client for 40. (Personal experience) Guess who started getting hired ALL the time? They killed the computer programming trade in less than 10 years. I imagine the same is going on with engineers and other hi-tech positions.
A blind eye is turned towards this invasion of illegal aliens who push the wage base down even further.
Now they are even "outsourcing" low-tech customer service jobs ("call 800 . . . for info") for chrissakes.
We are going to end up like South America with the rich isolating themselves behind armed guards and gates and the restless underemployed milling around outside.
The politicians have tax-payer guaranteed pensions instead of 401Ks, so they insulate themselves from their folly. The CEOs have their golden parachutes while their employees get their pink slips.
Wonder why the economy is stagnating? This is a consumer economy and the corporations have laid off all their customers. You can't sell to those who have no money. It doesn't matter if Chinese TVs at WallyWorld are cheap if I have only a subsistence wage.
"Global Competition" means "Who will work the cheapest?" We are finding out, slowly but surely.
And by and large, outside of a few boards like this, nobody is aware, or if they are, gives a damn.
<rant off>
longeyes
member
oatka
I'm with you on indifference and greed but I'm afraid I believe, and I'm not alone, that design indeed has something to do with a lot of our problems. There appears to be a systematic program to kill off the middle-class, along with its traditional values, in this country. We managed to create a country without a proletariat so some folks decided we'd better have one, the better to further their own political ambitions. We are now in the process of importing that proletariat on a daily basis and establishing a huge underclass that is alreay undermining our social and cultural cohesion. I think you are right; it's the "South America" model that's on someone's desk, with oligarchs and rich dynasties, a bunch of hard-working stiffs in the middle to pay the taxes for the expanding bureaucracy, and lots of "needy" to keep the welfare mafia employed. We are nation-building abroad while nation-destroying at home.
We all seem to agree that education, in particular political education, is the crux of the matter, for without an educated citizenry you can't have the Constitutional Republic we cherish. Working to take over schoolboards is a good idea, but I think the answer finally has to be privatization, with vouchers as a first step. It won't be easy, for teachers have become a powerful and protected class in this country, with huge political influence. One of the primary reasons that my state (CA) is bleeding fiscally is that our budget is in the iron grip of the edutariat. The Left's mantra has and continues to be that public education is the answer to "what's wrong with America" when it's really part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
My optimism lies in the fact that we are facing, in many states, the spectre of either insolvency or a crisis precipitated by enforced higher taxes. Maybe at some point the people who sees taxes eroding more and more of their dreams will commit some time to activism rather than escapism. I keep waiting for some firebrands to stir things up nationally, but right now talk radio is about the only place there's any fire.
I'm with you on indifference and greed but I'm afraid I believe, and I'm not alone, that design indeed has something to do with a lot of our problems. There appears to be a systematic program to kill off the middle-class, along with its traditional values, in this country. We managed to create a country without a proletariat so some folks decided we'd better have one, the better to further their own political ambitions. We are now in the process of importing that proletariat on a daily basis and establishing a huge underclass that is alreay undermining our social and cultural cohesion. I think you are right; it's the "South America" model that's on someone's desk, with oligarchs and rich dynasties, a bunch of hard-working stiffs in the middle to pay the taxes for the expanding bureaucracy, and lots of "needy" to keep the welfare mafia employed. We are nation-building abroad while nation-destroying at home.
We all seem to agree that education, in particular political education, is the crux of the matter, for without an educated citizenry you can't have the Constitutional Republic we cherish. Working to take over schoolboards is a good idea, but I think the answer finally has to be privatization, with vouchers as a first step. It won't be easy, for teachers have become a powerful and protected class in this country, with huge political influence. One of the primary reasons that my state (CA) is bleeding fiscally is that our budget is in the iron grip of the edutariat. The Left's mantra has and continues to be that public education is the answer to "what's wrong with America" when it's really part of the problem rather than part of the solution.
My optimism lies in the fact that we are facing, in many states, the spectre of either insolvency or a crisis precipitated by enforced higher taxes. Maybe at some point the people who sees taxes eroding more and more of their dreams will commit some time to activism rather than escapism. I keep waiting for some firebrands to stir things up nationally, but right now talk radio is about the only place there's any fire.
Unisaw
Member
The growing role of government and govt. bureaucracy, including the educational bureaucracy.
The gradual erosion of individual rights.
The decline in personal responsibility and the rise of victimhood.
Far too many of our youth and young adults (boy, that makes me sound old!) lack even a rudimentary understanding of American and world history.
The gradual erosion of individual rights.
The decline in personal responsibility and the rise of victimhood.
Far too many of our youth and young adults (boy, that makes me sound old!) lack even a rudimentary understanding of American and world history.
Esky
Member
Wheew.
I started to list all the problems that had been identified by the contributors thus far, to find the common denominator(s) & try to come up with some ideas for solutions...
But then I was overcome with a great sadness, and felt despair.
We're looking at great and fundamental problems here- not for us as individuals, but for our great land.
I hope it's just momentary depression, but I do think we may have passed the "tipping point" and we're going down. To what, is the question. Could be a civil war, but of a different kind than the one we've already had, a war to regain the liberty that is now being thrown away by so many. The "birthright for a bowl of porridge" thing, (if I remember that right.)
Maybe not though; before September 11, I felt little patriotism or love of my country within myself, as witness the fact that I've lived the past 30 years in Australia. And I thought I had become an Australian, by applying for and receiving Australian citizenship. Which made me a "dual" citizen, and I was fat & happy; a "citizen of the world," I considered myself. And then it happened.
But even though Australians were shocked and horrified, I felt different- than they seemed to feel- about what had occurred. And maybe I'm making this sound a little harsh, and I don't mean it to knock Australians, it's just that they're not... well, they're just not Americans, and they see things another way.
Many here in my neighborhood of Western Australia, once the initial shock was over, expressed feelings such as "That was really terrible, horrible, unbelievable... but after all, those Yanks asked for it." or "Let's keep out of it, who wants the whole world to hate us like they do America." Sometimes phrased very politely, very subtly, but still that feeling was there- that Americans had brought it all on themselves, just by being. How? Well, that was never exactly specified. I guess you're just supposed to know. The "peace" activists were very strong over here. (Thank God for Prime Minister John Howard, who I hadn't cared much for until then, and who has proved himself to be far wiser than me.)
And it was then that I realized that no matter how long I stay in Australia, no matter that I have become an Australian subject of Queen Elizabeth, own property here, have children here... I will never be Australian, for one simple reason.
I am an American.
Just an American. Born & bred and in my heart, it's part of me. I now know there ain't no such thing as dual loyalty, and I'm sorry that I was so complacent that it took something as awful as September 11 for me to realize that. But I know it now.
So maybe there is hope for the United States of America. even with all these problems.
After all, I'm a slow-learner, and it took an awful lot just to get my attention, then to realize where my right place was; but this thing called love of your country is catching on all over. After all, it's the best country on the planet, even with all its faults! And I'm sure I'm not the only one who is coming home at last. (And I'll be buying a gun as soon as I get there, what joy!)
Now I'll get back to making that list- and I'll look forward to CROSSING THINGS OFF!
Esky
___________________________________________________
sheesh... didn't mean to get all emotional there, hope you all had your hankies out
I started to list all the problems that had been identified by the contributors thus far, to find the common denominator(s) & try to come up with some ideas for solutions...
But then I was overcome with a great sadness, and felt despair.
We're looking at great and fundamental problems here- not for us as individuals, but for our great land.
I hope it's just momentary depression, but I do think we may have passed the "tipping point" and we're going down. To what, is the question. Could be a civil war, but of a different kind than the one we've already had, a war to regain the liberty that is now being thrown away by so many. The "birthright for a bowl of porridge" thing, (if I remember that right.)
Maybe not though; before September 11, I felt little patriotism or love of my country within myself, as witness the fact that I've lived the past 30 years in Australia. And I thought I had become an Australian, by applying for and receiving Australian citizenship. Which made me a "dual" citizen, and I was fat & happy; a "citizen of the world," I considered myself. And then it happened.
But even though Australians were shocked and horrified, I felt different- than they seemed to feel- about what had occurred. And maybe I'm making this sound a little harsh, and I don't mean it to knock Australians, it's just that they're not... well, they're just not Americans, and they see things another way.
Many here in my neighborhood of Western Australia, once the initial shock was over, expressed feelings such as "That was really terrible, horrible, unbelievable... but after all, those Yanks asked for it." or "Let's keep out of it, who wants the whole world to hate us like they do America." Sometimes phrased very politely, very subtly, but still that feeling was there- that Americans had brought it all on themselves, just by being. How? Well, that was never exactly specified. I guess you're just supposed to know. The "peace" activists were very strong over here. (Thank God for Prime Minister John Howard, who I hadn't cared much for until then, and who has proved himself to be far wiser than me.)
And it was then that I realized that no matter how long I stay in Australia, no matter that I have become an Australian subject of Queen Elizabeth, own property here, have children here... I will never be Australian, for one simple reason.
I am an American.
Just an American. Born & bred and in my heart, it's part of me. I now know there ain't no such thing as dual loyalty, and I'm sorry that I was so complacent that it took something as awful as September 11 for me to realize that. But I know it now.
So maybe there is hope for the United States of America. even with all these problems.
After all, I'm a slow-learner, and it took an awful lot just to get my attention, then to realize where my right place was; but this thing called love of your country is catching on all over. After all, it's the best country on the planet, even with all its faults! And I'm sure I'm not the only one who is coming home at last. (And I'll be buying a gun as soon as I get there, what joy!)
Now I'll get back to making that list- and I'll look forward to CROSSING THINGS OFF!
Esky
___________________________________________________
sheesh... didn't mean to get all emotional there, hope you all had your hankies out
spartacus2002
Member
So many things wrong.....where to start?
Education IS NOT what your kids will get at school.
Education is what YOU will teach them.
Shouldn't be like that, but there it is. I've resigned myself to the fact that my son (and future kids) won't learn a damn thing in school except how to parrot back the words they need for passing to next grade, how to score drugs, how to have sex, etc.
Why are we letting our schools turn into socialist indoctrination camps? I'm not being too extreme in calling them that; what would you call it when your first grader is told on the first day of school to turn in his extra pencils, his ruler, and his scissors so they can be stored for all to use? And if dumbass Johnny loses his ruler, why, the teacher will just give him yours!
I don't believe there is a mass communist conspiracy to turn kids into communists; however, we have to stand up for what we believe in, i.e., personal responsibility, self-discipline, private property, etc.
I think things are going to get very ugly very soon in America; between the out-of-control illegal alien situation, the spiraling deficits, and the coming police state, America is crashing down.
I'm a lawyer. I deal with laws and regulations every day. The amount of laws and regulations out there is staggering. Just one example: the "cliff notes" cheatbook for dealing with Merit Systems Protection Board is thicker than the Houston Phone Book. And that's just the cheatbook!
The system is staggering under its own weight.
Education IS NOT what your kids will get at school.
Education is what YOU will teach them.
Shouldn't be like that, but there it is. I've resigned myself to the fact that my son (and future kids) won't learn a damn thing in school except how to parrot back the words they need for passing to next grade, how to score drugs, how to have sex, etc.
Why are we letting our schools turn into socialist indoctrination camps? I'm not being too extreme in calling them that; what would you call it when your first grader is told on the first day of school to turn in his extra pencils, his ruler, and his scissors so they can be stored for all to use? And if dumbass Johnny loses his ruler, why, the teacher will just give him yours!
I don't believe there is a mass communist conspiracy to turn kids into communists; however, we have to stand up for what we believe in, i.e., personal responsibility, self-discipline, private property, etc.
I think things are going to get very ugly very soon in America; between the out-of-control illegal alien situation, the spiraling deficits, and the coming police state, America is crashing down.
I'm a lawyer. I deal with laws and regulations every day. The amount of laws and regulations out there is staggering. Just one example: the "cliff notes" cheatbook for dealing with Merit Systems Protection Board is thicker than the Houston Phone Book. And that's just the cheatbook!
The system is staggering under its own weight.
JohnBT
Member
It's still a great country.
Problems? We'll rise above them once again.
John
Problems? We'll rise above them once again.
John
longeyes
member
Isn't the issue who "we" will be when we do?
I'm afraid like spartacus I see some ugly times ahead. But the ugliness will be our friend too, because only by putting all that's going on today in bold relief, with dramatic consequences, are we likely to get the actions that can hope to reverse the current negative momentum (the "Big Mo?")
spartacus2002
Member
Well, I didn't want to get on a soapbox, but..........
The cause of liberty will only die if it is completely forgotten. It will survive so long as folks like us keep it alive, no matter what may come. But we have to educate others as well.
Teach your kids self-reliance. Teach them that bums are bums, not "homeless." Teach them illegal immigrants are not "undocumented workers." Teach them how to see thru the doublespeak.
Take a newbie shooting. Better yet, take a reporter shooting.
Get a CCW permit just because you can.
Stop watching TV; don't let the hairsprayheads in the haunted fishtank tell you what to think.
Read a book about the history of the American Revolution, especially the British excesses that led up to it (the general warrants, etc.). Then, look how the Bill of Rights was supposed to prevent those excesses.
Finally, ask yourself if you can distinguish between loving your country and unconditionally obeying your government.
The cause of liberty will only die if it is completely forgotten. It will survive so long as folks like us keep it alive, no matter what may come. But we have to educate others as well.
Teach your kids self-reliance. Teach them that bums are bums, not "homeless." Teach them illegal immigrants are not "undocumented workers." Teach them how to see thru the doublespeak.
Take a newbie shooting. Better yet, take a reporter shooting.
Get a CCW permit just because you can.
Stop watching TV; don't let the hairsprayheads in the haunted fishtank tell you what to think.
Read a book about the history of the American Revolution, especially the British excesses that led up to it (the general warrants, etc.). Then, look how the Bill of Rights was supposed to prevent those excesses.
Finally, ask yourself if you can distinguish between loving your country and unconditionally obeying your government.
Med 10
Member
ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.
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