texengland
Member
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- Jul 8, 2004
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I've seen the good and bad reviews of the other Llama pistols, but not much on this one. Anybody have any experiances with it?
Llama 1911 clone
- Thread starter texengland
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chevrofreak
Member
One of the guys that shoots action pistol with us shoots a Llama 1911. It jams less than any of the other 1911's guys bring up.
Okiecruffler
Member
I bought one in an impulse buy a little while back, was completely reliable. As long as you only loaded 5 rounds in the mag and made sure they were hardball. Made a pretty effective singleshot if you loaded it with hollowpoints. If nothing else, I got alot of practice in FTF drills. But I have heard good things, maybe I just got a bad one.
I think that they are okay. My dad seems to agree, and he shot the snot out of them when he lived in Spain.
Don't be shocked or offended if some diehard 1911'r points out that:
The 
Llama is NOT a 1911 clone!! Why do people keep saying that.:banghead: Why!:banghead: Why!:banghead:
Everybody I have known that had them liked them.
Don't be shocked or offended if some diehard 1911'r points out that:
The Llama is NOT a 1911 clone!! Why do people keep saying that.:banghead: Why!:banghead: Why!:banghead: Everybody I have known that had them liked them.
BryanP
Member
I know exactly one person who owns one. He's never had any problems with it. Believe me, he's the picky type - if it gave him reliability problems I'd have heard about it.
mondocomputerman
Member
Why is Llama not a 1911 clone. Does the outside appearence look similar?
WTM
Member
I know a local FFL who's owned one for a number of years and loves it. Says it has never been a problem. He'll sell you what you want but will always encourage folks to give the Llama a serious thought before buying something more expensive. WTM
Smoke
Member
Really poor sights, grittiest feel, finicky about mags and ammo, lousy fit and finish, cheap. What's not to like? 
Bought one and traded it. Went temporarily insane and bought another a few years later, traded it off too. Looked at one a dealer got in recently....cycled the slide and ...handed it right back.
But don't let me influence you.
Smoke
Bought one and traded it. Went temporarily insane and bought another a few years later, traded it off too. Looked at one a dealer got in recently....cycled the slide and ...handed it right back.
But don't let me influence you.
Smoke
WTM
Member
P.S. to my earlier posting about the dealer and the Llama. I forgot to include "I bought a Colt because that was what I had carried for 7 years while in the army."
P5 Guy
Member
A guy shooting next to me at the Dade Rod and Gun Club had a small one in .45ACP. He did not get one full magazine through it and the extracter broke. He said it was new.
Mondocomputerman,
At a distance almost anybody would say that it is a 1911. The ones I have messed with had the same controls in generaly the same spot, but the slide and grip were a little bit different. The grip was fatter. The slide looked like it had a vent rib on top of it; although, the slots were filled in and not really vented.
At a distance almost anybody would say that it is a 1911. The ones I have messed with had the same controls in generaly the same spot, but the slide and grip were a little bit different. The grip was fatter. The slide looked like it had a vent rib on top of it; although, the slots were filled in and not really vented.
tarrigoni
Member
my extractor broke in the first full magazine.
when I got it fixed, I had no problems with it and it was actually pretty accurate.
when I got it fixed, I had no problems with it and it was actually pretty accurate.
7677
Member
I have one of the older Llamas and after some fluff and buff it is reliable and I haven't found a HP it won't shoot.
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I have looked at several of the newer Llamas, and cannot recommend them. One was brought to me because it was inaccurate. Off a rest, the best I could do was around 10-12 inches at 25 yards. I found the barrel with lots of file marks; it just flopped around in the slide and frame, with play on both sides and the top as well. Almost all the internals showed file marks where parts were made to fit, hardly a sign of high quality production. The others were more accurate, but still were sloppy and showed the same type of hand work in assembly. One (like the ones mentioned) had extractor problems but replacing the extractor cured the problem.
All of them looked and felt good, were nicely blued and from the outside looked to be well made. The only one I fired more than a few shots from (the "tight" group pistol) worked OK for 50 rounds.
Jim
All of them looked and felt good, were nicely blued and from the outside looked to be well made. The only one I fired more than a few shots from (the "tight" group pistol) worked OK for 50 rounds.
Jim
yayarx7
Member
The one I had the slide metal was way too soft. After about 200 rounds the bushing caused peening, and the firing pin would stick. I sent it in under warrenty and they ground down the mushroomed part of the slide and sent it back to me.
I traded it for a Norinco, best deal I ever made.
I traded it for a Norinco, best deal I ever made.
FPrice
Member
One of my local dealers has a Llama .45ACP for $300. It looks good from the outside (see Jim Keenan's comments above) but that seems to be it. I was going to offer him $200 and see what happens but after reading this thread I think I'll pass.
wally
Member
I'll never understand how Llama survives while Star and Astra went belly up. Star and Astra made good guns that generally worked, although Astra's often had problems with the sights getting loose after a few hundred rounds, Star's tended to be heavy for their size, but were otherwise good.
--wally.
--wally.
7677
Member
wally,
From what I've heard the reason that Llama is still around is because Bersa bought them out. The Llama I looked at yesterday appeared to well built. The frame and feed ramp actually matched up which was a common problem with earlier Llamas. I wouldn't trade my Llama 45 for any other 45 out there because it shoots to point of aim and it is 100% reliable with any hollow point out there. However, if I was in the market for a 1911 the Llama would not be on the top of my list because of compatibility issues with other 1911s. This problem has lessened in the past few years but one still has to custom fit ambi safeties and other parts because no one makes them for the Llamas.
From what I've heard the reason that Llama is still around is because Bersa bought them out. The Llama I looked at yesterday appeared to well built. The frame and feed ramp actually matched up which was a common problem with earlier Llamas. I wouldn't trade my Llama 45 for any other 45 out there because it shoots to point of aim and it is 100% reliable with any hollow point out there. However, if I was in the market for a 1911 the Llama would not be on the top of my list because of compatibility issues with other 1911s. This problem has lessened in the past few years but one still has to custom fit ambi safeties and other parts because no one makes them for the Llamas.
nitesite
Member
The plunger tube was made of black plastic on the two I have examined, and was glued to the frame.
The thumb safety had to be dremel-tooled to get it to drop back down from safe. That's how we found the plunger tube was plastic. The tubes opening was ovalled from us trying to press the safety down. Man that plunger sure did wiggle a lot in the hole! All this during the first week it was in our posession.
The thumb safety had to be dremel-tooled to get it to drop back down from safe. That's how we found the plunger tube was plastic. The tubes opening was ovalled from us trying to press the safety down. Man that plunger sure did wiggle a lot in the hole! All this during the first week it was in our posession.
7677
Member
nitesite,
Plastic plunger tubes are not new to Llamas. My gun has one and it is screwed not glued to the frame, but I have no doubt they are now glued. When I first got my llama the stock plunger tube cracked and I had to replace it. I'm not the greatest fan of plastic plunger tubes but I have had my Llama for over 14 years and I've only had one break so far. If had to estimate how many rounds I've fired through it I'd have to say some where around 10 to 15 thousand. My gun was definitely not reliable with hollow points out of the box and it took some work to get my gun to the point it is now. Like I said earlier, I would trade my Llama but if I was in the market for a new 1911 it wouldn't be a Llama. They can be made in to reliable weapon but it takes the know how and with the vast choices available today why bother when for a few dollars more you can a 1911 that is reliable out of the box.
Plastic plunger tubes are not new to Llamas. My gun has one and it is screwed not glued to the frame, but I have no doubt they are now glued. When I first got my llama the stock plunger tube cracked and I had to replace it. I'm not the greatest fan of plastic plunger tubes but I have had my Llama for over 14 years and I've only had one break so far. If had to estimate how many rounds I've fired through it I'd have to say some where around 10 to 15 thousand. My gun was definitely not reliable with hollow points out of the box and it took some work to get my gun to the point it is now. Like I said earlier, I would trade my Llama but if I was in the market for a new 1911 it wouldn't be a Llama. They can be made in to reliable weapon but it takes the know how and with the vast choices available today why bother when for a few dollars more you can a 1911 that is reliable out of the box.
nitesite
Member
I stand corrected
Yes, that plunger tube was held by a screw now that I think of it. I remember my friend super-gluing it as well as screwing it back onto his frame after getting a replacement.
Thanks for reminding me!
I didn't say anything in my earlier post about it, but his shot nearly 100% when i was around, only a very few stovepipes did I ever see.
nitesite
Yes, that plunger tube was held by a screw now that I think of it. I remember my friend super-gluing it as well as screwing it back onto his frame after getting a replacement.
Thanks for reminding me!
I didn't say anything in my earlier post about it, but his shot nearly 100% when i was around, only a very few stovepipes did I ever see.
nitesite
cls12vg30
Member
I just picked up a Llama Micromax .380, it's a mini-1911 style, in a stainless finish. I felt at the time of purchase I was sort of going out on a limb, having not done much research into the brand. So far I have to say I am pleased with the purchase. I have about 100 rounds through it, it has jammed a couple times on HP's, but I have polished the feed ramp, and as I put more rounds through it I expect this problem may clear up, we'll have to see.
I'm not sure exactly how old my Llama is, it was sold as used but it is obviously very slightly used. The left side of te slide reads, "Fabrinor Vitoria (Espana)" and also has a winged crest with the letters "FAE", which I have heard may stand for "Fuerza Aeronauitica Ecuadoria", or Ecuadorian Air Force, which it seems use the .380 Micromax as a standard issue sidearm. Maybe someone here can confirm or refute this for me, I'm a bit curious.
The fit and finish on the pistol seem very good, and the trigger feels fantastic, and in that 100 rounds it was quite accurate, on par with my Bulgie Makarov at 10 yards. The plunger is not metal, not plastic, and the only part of the gun with any play in it at all is the grip safety, which is to be expected and does not affect its functioning.
The 3-white dot sights are quite good, even better since I filled in the dots with orange Bright Sights paint. My only problem with aiming the gun is that the thumbrest grip (required by importation law) tends to cause my hand to naturally point the gun to the left, but with practice I will get over that.
Like I said, we'll see how it holds up, and changes over the next couple hundred rounds, but right now all I can say is that it's beautiful, feel great in my hand. It's an interesting departure from the ComBloc weapons I'm used to.
I'm not sure exactly how old my Llama is, it was sold as used but it is obviously very slightly used. The left side of te slide reads, "Fabrinor Vitoria (Espana)" and also has a winged crest with the letters "FAE", which I have heard may stand for "Fuerza Aeronauitica Ecuadoria", or Ecuadorian Air Force, which it seems use the .380 Micromax as a standard issue sidearm. Maybe someone here can confirm or refute this for me, I'm a bit curious.
The fit and finish on the pistol seem very good, and the trigger feels fantastic, and in that 100 rounds it was quite accurate, on par with my Bulgie Makarov at 10 yards. The plunger is not metal, not plastic, and the only part of the gun with any play in it at all is the grip safety, which is to be expected and does not affect its functioning.
The 3-white dot sights are quite good, even better since I filled in the dots with orange Bright Sights paint. My only problem with aiming the gun is that the thumbrest grip (required by importation law) tends to cause my hand to naturally point the gun to the left, but with practice I will get over that.
Like I said, we'll see how it holds up, and changes over the next couple hundred rounds, but right now all I can say is that it's beautiful, feel great in my hand. It's an interesting departure from the ComBloc weapons I'm used to.
horge
Member
cls12vg30,
Llama Micromax 380's built before 2000 bore the rollmark "Gabilondo y Cia"
Those built from 2000 to 2003 bore the rollmark "Fabrinor Vitoria"
New ones carry "Fabrinor Legutiano"
Gabilondo & Co. went under, and their master gunsmiths got together to buy it from the bankrupt owners, via their new cooperative 'Fabrinor'. From 2000 to 2003, Fabrinor used the old factory in Vitoria, while a new one was being completed in nearby Legutiano.
I've posted here many times --to many disbelieving-- that there is noticeable change in the quuality of LLama pistols, ever since it was finally owned by those who actually MAKE and use the guns. The difference is particularly keen in products out of the new factory.
BERSA in Argentina, LLAMA in Spain, Armscor in the Philippines, Tanfoglio in Italy, and Auto-Ordnance in the US, among others, all have old (and bad) reputations to overcome, and if they could somehow get rid of all the old and inferior stock out there, and replace it with new, it would be easier.
Llama Micromax 380's built before 2000 bore the rollmark "Gabilondo y Cia"
Those built from 2000 to 2003 bore the rollmark "Fabrinor Vitoria"
New ones carry "Fabrinor Legutiano"
Gabilondo & Co. went under, and their master gunsmiths got together to buy it from the bankrupt owners, via their new cooperative 'Fabrinor'. From 2000 to 2003, Fabrinor used the old factory in Vitoria, while a new one was being completed in nearby Legutiano.
I've posted here many times --to many disbelieving-- that there is noticeable change in the quuality of LLama pistols, ever since it was finally owned by those who actually MAKE and use the guns. The difference is particularly keen in products out of the new factory.
BERSA in Argentina, LLAMA in Spain, Armscor in the Philippines, Tanfoglio in Italy, and Auto-Ordnance in the US, among others, all have old (and bad) reputations to overcome, and if they could somehow get rid of all the old and inferior stock out there, and replace it with new, it would be easier.
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