LnL AP drive hub slop

[Kaldor]

My LnL has seen alot of cycles, probably north of 100k pieces of brass prepped and or loaded on but Im seeing about a 1/4" of slop in my drive hub compared to the index wheel. Im assuming the drive hub is wearing out, because its made of crappy pot metal.

Im assuming the only part Ill need to get from Hornady is the drive hub which is part #29?

See video:

 

[Blue68f100]

I never have checked mine and I have about 200k through it. If it still functions fine, still use it. If not contact Hornady and they will take care of you.

 

[Walkalong]

IIRC, mine has always had a lot of slop, I'll check it when I get home.

 

[Kaldor]

I never have checked mine and I have about 200k through it. If it still functions fine, still use it. If not contact Hornady and they will take care of you.

I was just wondering due to having issues getting the shell plate centered on the up stroke last night and started looking it alot closer. A little tap on the shell plate detents helped the alignment issue. Im also seeing some shell plate lift/tilt, which would indicate a worn drive hub as well. I talked to another friend who did break his drive hub, and he has zero slop in his. Would you mind taking a quick peek at yours and seeing if yours moves without moving the shell plate?

Ill give Hornady a call, get the parts on their way, because Id rather have that one part on hand, and rebuild it when I have time, vs it breaking and being down for a week or more.

 

[Kaldor]

IIRC, mine has always had a lot of slop, I'll check it when I get home.

Thanks! Much appreciated.

 

[Walkalong]

It's been along time since I looked at how it works etc, but IIRC it has to have that play to work.

Will check it later.

 

[rskent]

Mine has no slop that I can feel. Works fine.

 

[Ruger 15151]

Slop causing the shell plate to rotate while the shaft stays still? Or... slop up and down on the shaft?

 

[Ruger 15151]

I was just wondering due to having issues getting the shell plate centered on the up stroke last night and started looking it a lot closer. A little tap on the shell plate detents helped the alignment issue. Im also seeing some shell plate lift/tilt, which would indicate a worn drive hub as well. I talked to another friend who did break his drive hub, and he has zero slop in his. Would you mind taking a quick peek at yours and seeing if yours moves without moving the shell plate?

I re-read your second post and I think you have 2 separate issues going on.

#1 - If the shell plate is no longer indexing properly on the up or down stroke, its likely that the pawls are worn and out of adjustment. You probably can't prime you cases very well either. There are several videos on how to adjust or replace worn pawls on YouTube. However, this one by Hornady should help:



#2 - The tilt in the shell plate is common, even on a brand new press. It creates issues with inconsistent bullet seating depths and primers seating properly. The tolerances in the drive hub heights as well as the shell plates are very inconsistent. I call Hornady to explain my concern and they initially sent me a new drive hub which didn't do anything. They then sent me a replacement 9mm shell plate and it had even more play and tilt. The tilt is caused by too much play between the shaft and the drive hub itself once the shell plate is tight. Mine had about .015 of play up and down. I was able to completely remove almost all my shell plate tilt by installing .012 of shims between the drive hub and the shaft. I'll attach a link that will explain how to do it and what shims you need. They can be found on Amazon and Ebay for a few bucks delivered. If you don't have a depth micrometer, just keep adding shims until the shell plate starts to bind as it indexes, then just remove some shim until it rotates freely. Your tilt will be almost gone, allowing you to seat primers like butter and seat you bullets with more consistency.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/...y-Lock-N-Load-AP-progressive-press/42-414607/

Hope this information helps!

 

[Kaldor]

@Ruger 15151
My pawls are good, and are in adjustment. That was the first thing I checked. I replaced them not long ago because they were starting to show some wear. The misalignment of the shell plate was easily fixed with a little tap on the shell plate detents. However, the amount that the index wheel will turn before the shell plate moves is a little bit of a concern.

I think the wear on the drive hub is causing a bunch of shell plate tilt. I do have the shim set, but until now, I never seen this issue I'm seeing now. I really don't want to tear it down to shim it, just to see that ultimately the drive hub is dickered.

Can you verify that your index wheel and drive hub move together with minimal play? Right now my index wheel on the bottom turns about a 1/4" before the shell plate moves. If you're not seeing alot of play, then you'll be another that confirms I need to replace the drive hub.

 

[Reeferman]

How’s it going Kaldor? I have been experiencing what you have and my LNL has close to the same play as yours does. It’s only been a few weeks since I had major shoulder surgery and can’t do anything for a couple months. I was going to contact Hornady on this as last spring when I contacted them about having case retainer spring issues. Springs only last less than a hundred rounds and start kinking which causes issues with the case feeder. I mentioned drive hub but the guy there decided to send me a new subplate instead. Never did get around to replacing it as I still think it’s the hub that’s causing the spring issue. All of my shell plates clicks forward a bit no matter how many times I try adjusting pawls or shell plate balls. The priming has never been an issue on my LNL.
Anyways let us know what you come up with.

 

[Walkalong]

Mine appears to have a little less play than that, but it has nearly a 1/4" just eyeballing it.

 

[Fine Figure of a Man]

Mine appears to have a little less play than that, but it has nearly a 1/4" just eyeballing it.

My press does as well and it works fine.

 

[Kaldor]

Thanks for the info gents. Much appreciated. Ill call Hornady, and see if they will send me a hub. Id rather be prepared with part in hand, than be down for a week or two waiting on parts. When I put it back together, Ill check into shimming the drive hub properly, so it runs better.

@Reeferman Mine eats springs too, but I think its more of a design issue. I dunno, I just keep a 1/2 dozen on hand, and use good ones for loading, bad ones for decapping. Ive never had an issue with priming either, and even with the shell plate tipping a bit, its still seats them home. Hope your shoulder gets better before spring!

 

[Reeferman]

Thanks for the info gents. Much appreciated. Ill call Hornady, and see if they will send me a hub. Id rather be prepared with part in hand, than be down for a week or two waiting on parts. When I put it back together, Ill check into shimming the drive hub properly, so it runs better.

@Reeferman Mine eats springs too, but I think its more of a design issue. I dunno, I just keep a 1/2 dozen on hand, and use good ones for loading, bad ones for decapping. Ive never had an issue with priming either, and even with the shell plate tipping a bit, its still seats them home. Hope your shoulder gets better before spring!

I tried shimming mine and it needed the thinnest one. I can’t remember which one but it was like paper. It didn’t make a difference on mine and I ended up taking it out as I have had no issues with primer depth seating or with cartridge COL. But the case spring issue is really starting to piss me off. I’ve got about the same amount of rounds through my LNL as you do.
How’s the case feeder pivot you made working?

 

[rskent]

m assuming the only part Ill need to get from Hornady is the drive hub which is part #29?

I guess the question is, is the hub or the index wheel that’s loose on the shaft? I don’t see how you can make any assumptions with taking the press apart. It seems like it could be the hub, but on the other hand it could be the pins are loose in the shaft. It seems like one good jam-up could result in the pinholes wallowing out

It creates issues with inconsistent bullet seating depths and primers seating properly.

I get how it affects priming, but exactly how does it affect seating depth. The case sits on the sub plate and is run up to the seating die. It seems like at that point the shell plate is irrelevant. Help me out here.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

With looking at the parts breakdown in back of the manual the index wheel looks like it has a keyway in it. It also looks like there is a pin sticking out of the shaft that engages the keyway.
Like rskent said above, if that pin is worn it will create a lot of play at the index starwheel itself.
I checked mine and it has no play in it. I can turn the index wheel about 3/16" but the shell plate turns with it.
I would check that pin on the bottom of the shaft that goes in the keyway of the index starwheel.
There is a E-ring on the bottom of the shaft holding on the starwheel, pop it off and the starwheel should slide off so you can see the pin or key, whichever it is.
See if it is loose and slopping around.

 

[Blue68f100]

How’s it going Kaldor? I have been experiencing what you have and my LNL has close to the same play as yours does. It’s only been a few weeks since I had major shoulder surgery and can’t do anything for a couple months. I was going to contact Hornady on this as last spring when I contacted them about having case retainer spring issues. Springs only last less than a hundred rounds and start kinking which causes issues with the case feeder. I mentioned drive hub but the guy there decided to send me a new subplate instead. Never did get around to replacing it as I still think it’s the hub that’s causing the spring issue. All of my shell plates clicks forward a bit no matter how many times I try adjusting pawls or shell plate balls. The priming has never been an issue on my LNL.
Anyways let us know what you come up with.

I get several years use out of my springs on my LNL-AP. I have a brass feeder too. When I first got it setup I messed up a bunch of springs. Now I have learned to flip the spring out of the way when not in use or changing shell plates. Now it's possible if you have any up/down movement of the shell plate it will smash the springs. If this is the case let Hornady know when you talk to them. When I go out to the shop I will see how much play I have in my unit.

 

[Kaldor]

I tried shimming mine and it needed the thinnest one. I can’t remember which one but it was like paper. It didn’t make a difference on mine and I ended up taking it out as I have had no issues with primer depth seating or with cartridge COL. But the case spring issue is really starting to piss me off. I’ve got about the same amount of rounds through my LNL as you do.
How’s the case feeder pivot you made working?

Works like a champ! Its still the best "fix" Ive made on this press. Zero wear, zero slop, turns easy. I still want to make some custom pusher feet for the case pusher, just havent got around to it yet.

I guess the question is, is the hub or the index wheel that’s loose on the shaft? I don’t see how you can make any assumptions with taking the press apart. It seems like it could be the hub, but on the other hand it could be the pins are loose in the shaft. It seems like one good jam-up could result in the pinholes wallowing out

I get how it affects priming, but exactly how does it affect seating depth. The case sits on the sub plate and is run up to the seating die. It seems like at that point the shell plate is irrelevant. Help me out here.

I checked it, and index wheel is tight. Im not awfully worried if its a pin, but I think I will ask Hornady to send a few just as a CYA in case I have to replace one. I doubt its the shaft inside the main press column as that is solid steel I think. My concern is that my primers will seat crooked if the shell plate allows the case to lift off the press deck a little pit. Also noticed in station 5 that shell plate lift is causing just a hair of case tilt as the case comes into the Lee FCD for a crimp. Probably a huge deal as the case will straighten up as it gets into the die, but annoying. I doubt it will effect run out on a seated bullet as that pushed against the press deck.

With looking at the parts breakdown in back of the manual the index wheel looks like it has a keyway in it. It also looks like there is a pin sticking out of the shaft that engages the keyway.
Like rskent said above, if that pin is worn it will create a lot of play at the index starwheel itself.
I checked mine and it has no play in it. I can turn the index wheel about 3/16" but the shell plate turns with it.
I would check that pin on the bottom of the shaft that goes in the keyway of the index starwheel.
There is a E-ring on the bottom of the shaft holding on the starwheel, pop it off and the starwheel should slide off so you can see the pin or key, whichever it is.
See if it is loose and slopping around.

Noted, and will look closer. I think if any thing the pin will fail before the steel index wheel.

I get several years use out of my springs on my LNL-AP. I have a brass feeder too. When I first got it setup I messed up a bunch of springs. Now I have learned to flip the spring out of the way when not in use or changing shell plates. Now it's possible if you have any up/down movement of the shell plate it will smash the springs. If this is the case let Hornady know when you talk to them. When I go out to the shop I will see how much play I have in my unit.

The more I think about it, the more springs I have been going thru over the last year. If that spring is getting pinched, that will trash it quick. Might be time for a full PM session on this press.


Im still pondering buying a 750 now and then, but my will to keep this damn thing running has always been too strong

 

[Blue68f100]

I checked the play in my LNL-AP this morning. I have about 1/8" rotational play on the index wheel before my shell plates move. Did not detect any up/down movement in the shell plate when pushing up on the index wheel.

 

[choppertime]

I'm with you Kaldor my will to keep mine running is just about time for a 750....I've been fighting mine since 2008...packed it away for a year but keep giving it another chance.....lots of calls and parts from hornady and the gremlins still find their way to ruin a loading session....was using my lnl 1 week ago doing 9mm no issues went back 1 week later and ate 2 retainer springs within 10 rounds....I have all the bells an whistles on this thing....self abuse....when something goes wrong.....oh well I have a small boat for fishing....maybe a new anchor is in store...lol

 

[Kaldor]

Well gents, I can deal with the slop in the timing, that can be adjusted out. However, shell plate lift is pretty bad. Primers on a 223 case are sitting 10 thou proud, which is no bueno. I do run a shim under the primer seater to give a little more lift to offset the divot in my press.

Time to tear the press apart and see if I can find out exactly what is wrong. Ill throw a few pics up.

 

[Walkalong]

I have some up/down slop on the drive/shell plates, but I don't prime on the press and don't worry about it, I just make sure I pull the bolt/drive up while I hand tighten it to take up the slop before I tighten the bolt down snug with an allen wrench..

 

[Kaldor]

No real good pics to be had, but there is considerable slop in the drive hub to the press deck. Certainly enough to have a bunch of shell plate lift even with the shell plate fully tightened to the hub, which in turn will cause primers to not seat fully.

 

[Walkalong]

Here is my drive hub. Maybe .020 below flush, just guessing.