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Loading the FN 5.7 x 28, yes or no?

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Rule3, Oct 7, 2017.

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  1. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    OK, I have searched and read posts, forums till my eyes glazed over. I am not any closer to a answer,:confused:

    It seems to be a 50:50 on loading this pesky round.

    Is it worth it? Not so much for the money, but for the safety factor?? Is it really really that tricky? Some videos show it pretty much straight forward other's are you are gonna die!

    Usually when in doubt, I would say forget it but would like to know of any others here if they are happy reloading it.

    I did not just fall of the reloading truck so am not new at this, no I do not load any bottle neck pistol rounds. I do load rifle rounds.
     
  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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  3. entropy

    entropy Member

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    IIRC, You're not supposed to tumble the brass-something about a special coating? I found a bunch of it at the range once, tumbled it, then read a thread here that the FN brass has a coating. I don't load it, so I just tossed the brass.
     
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  4. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    I really wanted a PS90 ... but I refuse to have a CF firearm for which I cannot easily reload.

    For that reason I closely followed the excellent Thread that Trent (IIRC) provided us several years ago documenting his Adventures in 5.7x28 Reloading ... not the actual title, just how I remember it :)

    For me, the upshot was that reloading 5.7x28 was not worth all of the trouble.

    After that I even considered giving the 5.7x28 a reloading "pass" in order to acquire a PS90, but finally decided that being required to buy factory ammo would sour the experience for me, so ... <sigh&smile>

    FWIW.
     
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  5. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Yes it is the whole "shoulder" thing that has be spooked. Yes, I believe I can do it but it certainly seems like a PITA to do so. It would be for the FN five sevenn (handgun) Really do not want to be a poster boy kboom with that plastic gun. Probably will not shoot it enough to justify reloading it. I guess once in a while it would be nice to not pick up brass, and do all the prep on it, then worry every shoot!
    I think I will just buy Federal ammo, I certainly have "wasted" more money on other things in my life! All my vices are gone. LOL:)

    Heck I just bought a case of 9mm(on sale, rebate and free shipping) getting lazy!
     
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  6. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Yes it has a lacquer coating, that is no issue for me, I do not need surgically shiny brass. Heck there is even controversy over that. Helps feeding the ammo or protection.Just wash in soap and water.
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Supposedly the coating helped it feed from the mag. I tumbled mine and had no issues in an AR 57.
     
  8. KansasSasquatch

    KansasSasquatch Member

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    I reload it. From what I have read AND experienced the coating isn't important in semi auto firearms. But it the coating has a deep scratch or it's nicked, you'll probably want to completely remove it before loading. Nicks and scratches always seem to cause feeding issues. I personally reload 5.7 brass once or twice and toss it.
     
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  9. Sunray

    Sunray Member

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    "...for the safety factor..." No different than any other cartridge. Bottle neck pistol cartridges are no different than bottle necked rifle cartridges. I'd be taking any lacquer off anyway. Lacquer has a tendency to remain in chambers.
    The issue with the 5.7 is the availability of brass. And to a certain degree the number of firearms chambered in it. There is no brass and only Federal and FN load ammo.
    "...Some videos..." Quit watching videos to learn how to do stuff.
     
  10. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    :scrutiny:
     
  11. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Apparently you missed my first sentence and only chose to partially quote my first post

    "OK, I have searched and read posts, forums till my eyes glazed over. I am not any closer to a answer,":confused:

    From what I have "read" the lacquer" is indeed important for the clambering in the Five Seven pistol (per FN)

    The cartridge is INDEED different than other bottleneck cartridges, as mentioned the shoulder area is pretty unique.

    So do you load it and have first hand experience with it??
     
  12. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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  13. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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  14. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Which shows you know nothing about the 5.7X28. It isn't the fact it is a bottle necked caliber, it's the fact it is being shot in a delayed blowback semi auto firearm.
     
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  15. Havok7416
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    Havok7416 Member

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    I have a Five-SeveN and I have toyed with reloading it, but it just doesn't make any sense to me after reviewing all the facts.

    I feel that most of the savings in reloading is centered on reuse of the brass rather than cheaper component supplies. Since the 5.7x28 case is typically only reloaded a few times, I can't justify the expense. Instead I buy factory ammo and just don't shoot the gun as much.

    When you add to that the issues with bullets, glue, case coatinhe and the blowback nature of the action itself, I don't find myself enthused.

    Honestly I think I would have been better off if the .22 TCM had just come out a few years sooner. It's still tempting, but I hate the thought of giving up one of my more exotic guns.
     
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  16. ericuda

    ericuda Member

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    I figured why not reload them. Watch out when picking a sizing die. Lee did not work and size too well, but am happy with the hornady sizing die. I wash in soap and only load the brass once and very fewmtwice if I am keeping track. I use a forster trimmer to trim the brass and true blue powder. Yes it is picky and I found I have to load at max to get reliable ejection in the 5.7 pistol.
     
  17. Danoobie

    Danoobie Member

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    I've got so much other stuff to reload, even if I wanted to, I wouldn't be reloading 5.7 for some time.
    I save enough on reloading other calibers, and don't shoot the 5.7 as much.
     
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  18. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Good, you talked me out of reloading for it.:)

    I also considered the 22TCM but as there is only the Armscorp 1911 pistol for it that gun does not "thrill" me, The round is cool buy do not want a 1911 "style" pistol, The FN just has a "cool" factor,:)
     
  19. Havok7416
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    Havok7416 Member

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    Glad I could help... if that's what I did here. I agree about the 1911 - between owning a redundant platform and owning a redundant caliber there was little appeal to me in the end. Now if someone would come out for a .22 TCM conversion in a pistol platform other than a 1911, I might be interested.
     
  20. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    Armscor makes conversion kits for Glock.

    I have a TCM, I only got it because they don't sell 9mm without one. (Trying to make the idea stick, I suppose we will see if it works.) I haven't started reloading yet, I am trying to stockpile brass. It isn't cheap, it costs twice as much as 9mm. I will probably nuy 1k pieces of brass. I don't know if I will get around to froming cases from 5.56 brass, ypu have to cut, size, and most advice I am seeing strongly recommends annealing. So, I think I will limit myself to factory brass for the forseeable future. I will get a Lee factory crimp die, that has been nothing but good for other cartridges I have used them for. Also, there is pretty much one bullet you can use for it.(Hornady 35 gr.)
     
  21. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    I was not aware of the 22 TCM conversion kit. Just looked it up. It's $430 bucks and is it reliable??

    https://advancedtactical.com/products/kits/conversion-kits/22tcm9r-conversion-for-glock-17-22
     
  22. Swampman

    Swampman Old Fart

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    Really?
    So how do you suggest that I set up the pull through expander balls in my .357 SIG, 7.62x25 and .400 Cor-Bon dies?
    So what do you suggest that folks do when they want to learn stuff?
    Bask in and absorb your infinite wisdom? :barf:
     
  23. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

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    I can recall my disappointment at having to give up on 5,7x28.

    It lasted a moment and then I shrugged and moved on ... s'not like I am short on firearms flavors from which to choose.

    That and the backyard range (and the contiguous ancestral farm) make getting over such letdowns very easy. :)
     
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  24. mljdeckard

    mljdeckard Member

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    Rule 3, I wouldn't know. Like I say, the only reason I have one at all is they are packaged with 9mms. Mine runs well with the supplied magazine and factory ammo. The 9mm half is highly finicky about my reloads, I will report on the the TCM reloads when I get there.

    I don't think I would pay $430 for one. I think if Armscor really wants the round to catch on, that price might need to come down $150.
     
  25. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I don't have one of these weapons nor do I reload for them. What I understand from having read about them is that they are a blow back weapon, or maybe a delayed blowback weapon. High powered versions of these weapons require that the case be lubricated . As LTC Chinn says in Vol IV of the Machine Gun Book

    IYKqBZA.jpg

    I don't know why FN did not adopt chamber flutes. The Germans got the idea from the Russians and all the roller bolts use gas lubrication. The upper 2/3 rds of the case is floated from the chamber.

    PB9SaEH.jpg

    4jWTQi7.jpg

    FN must be telflon coating these cases. The US experimented with telfon coated cases in the 1950's. The US Navy and the US Army and Army Air Corp used 20 mm Oerlikon machine cannons which required greased ammunition. The Oerlikon was an advanced primer ignition blowback machine gun. It required greased ammunition because fluted chambers were not around to copy. Rounds were pre greased prior to loading. This was messy and experiments were conducted on various dry film lubricants. This Navy document, it is a couple hundred pages, and I shortened the summary:

    TEST OF TEFLON AND MICROCRYSTALLINE WAX CASE-CHAMBER LUBRICANT APPLIED TO BRASS-CASED 20MM AMMUNITION

    DIEWERT,JACK R ABERDEEN PROVING GROUND MD

    Report Date: 01-Dec-1954

    A LABORATORY INVESTIGATION OF CARTRIDGE LUBRICANTS FOR 20MM F.A.T.-16 STEEL CARTRIDGES

    In the past decade tests at the Naval Proving Ground had always demonstrated that waxed ammunition was unsatisfactory. Also, it was known that the Army and Air Force had frequently encountered storage and service problems caused by the use of wax on 20MM brass ammunition. Therefore, naval procurement of Army manufactured M21A1 brass ammunition had excluded wax coatings for 20MM cartridge lubrication. Since early in the Korean War it has been naval practice to oil cartridges just prior to use '(reference -(a)).

    Research at this Laboratory on dry film lubricants for cartridges, began in September 1950. In references (b) and (c), were listed the guides which were to be used in determining the value of a dry lubricant coating for ammunition.

    The most important conclusion of that investigation was that a thin film of polytetrafluoroethylene (Teflon) was the most satisfactory dry lubricant coating for cartridges. This conclusion was confirmed in the NRL reports of references (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), (i), and (J).


    This was on the Navy web site https://www.nrl.navy.mil/research/nrl-research-library/ now I can't find a way to get in. Anyway, telfon was not adopted, rather the Navy installed oilers on post WW2 Oerlikons. Oilers put a drop of oil on the round before it entered the chamber. One guy though the oiler was there to lubricate the weapon mechanism, it is not, they were there to oil the cartridge before it got into the chamber.

    You can find patents for telfon coatings:

    http://www.google.com/patents/US4041868

    Polytetrafluoroethylene
    US 4041868 A 1977



    A thin walled steel cartridge case having a substantially larger internal volume than a conventional cartridge case. The cartridge case is fabricated from a high strength, heat treated carbon steel or boron steel and the wall contour in the head area is designed to avoid localized high stress. A low friction coating is applied to the outer surface of the cartridge case and serves to reduce stress concentrations in the head area and to reduce extraction force in the event of interference between the case and the chamber during extraction



    If you have taken the dry film lubricant off the case you can manually grease the case exterior and shoot the cases greased or oiled. I learned this from a shooting bud, he never removed the sizing lube from his 308 Win cases. He shot one set of 308 cases the complete shooting season out of his M14. Never had a case head separation. I copied him and took one set 22 reloads through my M1a. Never had a case head separation. I think this is the better solution than tossing out expensive brass.

    I regularly grease cartridges prior to firing for the first time.
    gVfDIiq.jpg

    Vhr0qQj.jpg

    These cases are about $2.00 apiece. The headspace in belted magnums is off the belt. The base to shoulder distance is not controlled and if I did not grease my cases I would experience case head separations because the cases were stretched too much. This is a practice that Bench rest National Champions do, when fireforming cases. They get a perfectly formed, stress free case,, something they want.

    I am going to say, I have heard, and I believe, that if the cases in this mechanism are not lubricated, either through a dry film lubricant, or a restored grease/oil lubricant, than you run the risk of a blow up. This mechanism is designed to open up under pressure, the case is supposed to move, because the case to chamber friction was designed to be broken by a dry film lubricant. When it is, the case is ejected normally. But, you remove the dry film lubricant, the mechanism will open up under pressure, the case will be stuck to the chamber walls, and the case will rip in half, blowing hot gas and maybe brass particles out the breech. I read from other threads that shooters were hurt. Don't get hurt. Understand the mechanism and understand why it needs a special coating on the case.
     
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