Quantcast

Loading unsized new brass

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by sublimaze41, Nov 26, 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. sublimaze41

    sublimaze41 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of Western New York
    Yesterday I was happily priming 40 new .223 Lapua brass cases with Federal Match primers by hand. Just as the last one was done I came to realize I forgot to size the brass. Unwilling to deprime 40 cases I decided to go ahead and load then with a modest dose of H322 and 52 gr SMK.

    After case gauging all the rounds I headed to the range expecting poor results, and what happened took me by surprise, these new unsized cases did not affect accuracy. All five shot groups were less than .8 inches and the best measured 0.335!

    Can anybody provide observations or opinions??? I wouldn't necessarily do this again but it appeared to work out okay this time.
     
  2. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2007
    Messages:
    59,082
    Location:
    Eastern KS
    Well, new brass should be about as 'sized' as it will ever get.

    I usually just neck size enough to straighten bent case mouths dinged in shipping.

    But as you found out, it really shouldn't be necessary.

    rc
     
  3. GBExpat

    GBExpat Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,766
    Location:
    Rural, far beyond the beltway, Northern Virginia,
    At that point I would have just run them thru the sizing die since depriming is not required.
     
  4. Crowcifier666

    Crowcifier666 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2010
    Messages:
    301
    Location:
    INRI
    New brass shouldn't have to be resized. Even .223 brass fired 2 or 3 times I haven't bothered. Am I wrong? Granted, Im not getting .3 inch groups. What are you shooting, rifle-wise?
     
  5. Reloadron
    • Contributing Member

    Reloadron Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2012
    Messages:
    7,341
    Location:
    Cleveland, Ohio USA
    I generally will size new brass, not that it needs it but I generally will do it. However, there is some brass I won't bother to size when new. Lapua is in that family. I have a factory new box sitting here and without bothering to even check the stuff I can tell you if I run the stuff through any of several case gauges I have sitting here the case dimensional measurements will be right on specification by the SAAMI drawing. I won't even neck size the stuff. I may give it a visual for any dinged necks but that is about it. Then too, I visual the necks on all new brass.

    So in my case it depends on brand name. When I load especially 223 Remington and 308 Winchester my goal is to get things as uniform as possible. The time to size even new brass is something I have, so why not. Hey, keeps me off the streets and out of trouble. :) Is it necessary? No, not really.

    Ron
     
  6. FROGO207

    FROGO207 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2008
    Messages:
    7,213
    Location:
    Mount Desert Island Maine
    The brass **should** be sized correctly from the factory. BUT I will FL size them anyway just because I want them to have the same neck tension as all my other reloads. Then I check them for length. All before loading them for the first time. Sure that's not necessary but it's just the way I always do it.;) FWIW the case length on factory 303 BRIT Winchester brass was all over the place on my last bag I purchased about 6 years ago.:scrutiny:
     
  7. Hardtarget

    Hardtarget Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Messages:
    3,103
    Location:
    Nashville, Tn.
    The definition of "expert"..."X" is an unknown quantity and "spurt" is a drip under pressure.

    I qualify in both categories.

    Therefore, I don't feel like I can make a call of not doing a step. It would just cause me way too much trouble down the line. I get enough of that even trying to get it right. But thats just me.

    Mark
     
  8. snuffy

    snuffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Messages:
    2,926
    Location:
    Oshkosh Wi
    I just went and looked at my box of new Lapua .223 match brass. I just realized I had no recollection of whether their brass had the inside of the necks chamfered. Or just how round the necks were. Not round, and they were chamfered on one half of the inside of the neck, the other side was square, no chamfer. I would most certainly run them through the FL die, THEN use my Lyman VLD inside chamfer tool aligned straight with the axis of the case. I never use the standard 45 degree inside chamfer tool, the long tapered VLD has a 22 degree taper that will NOT scrape guilding metal off the bullet.

    I recently bought 50 new Nosler 7-08 brass. I needed to load some deer hunting rounds for my son. Nobody had any 7-08 except midway had some of the Nosler. It's some real nice brass, they claim you can go ahead , load it, no case prep needed. Tis true! Nicely inside chamfered apparently with a VLD tool. makes for some real purdy rounds with 139 SST's.

    I always run new auto pistol brass through the sizer as I load them, Makes everything uniform to start with.
     
  9. sublimaze41

    sublimaze41 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2007
    Messages:
    583
    Location:
    Peoples Republic of Western New York
    The two rifles were both (GASP) Remington 700, one model an LTR I just got and the other a bull barrel BDL from the 1980s. Both were stock triggers just lightened up. All targets were at 100 yards.

    Great point about just neck sizing, I never considered it as it was an accuracy issue to me not safety. I guess one of my main concerns was not wasting the Federal Match primers, man those are hard to get!

    Also, I use a fancy rest, I cut 2 legs off from old jeans, lined it with a heavy mill garbage bag, filled them with sand and zip tied them. Kinda redneck but has worked for the last few years.
     
  10. Berger.Fan222

    Berger.Fan222 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2014
    Messages:
    548
    Location:
    TX
    I've had excellent results loading new Lapua brass in .223 without sizing first.

    I do chamfer the case necks.
     
  11. joneb

    joneb Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    4,100
    Location:
    Oregon
    Ditto on the Nosler brass I bought 100 of their 2nds in 308 Win. it was fully prepped as advertised and ready to load.
     
  12. fguffey

    fguffey Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    2,707
    You have fired this rifle before? You know the length of the chamber from the shoulder to the bolt face? You knew the difference in length between the case and chamber from the shoulder of the chamber to the bolt face and from the shoulder of the case to the case head?

    Why wouldn't you 'do it again'? by full length sizing the cases after firing. A lot of space has been used up on reloading about bench resters and full length sizing. Seems it was about 15 years ago. No one ever mentions the difference in cost of rifles but most pay $2,000 + for a rifle that is built for bench resting.

    Then there has to be a difference , and it has to make a difference when firing a minimum length case and a fire formed case.

    F. Guffey
     
  13. Zeke/PA

    Zeke/PA Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    2,307
    Location:
    Southeastern Pa.
    I had a bad experience awhile back after I'd primed and charged 60 rounds of new rifle brass.
    The case necks were too large and the bullets dropped into the cases.
    Isolated incident? Maybe , but I learned a valuable lesson.
     
  14. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2010
    Messages:
    2,429
    Location:
    Ozark Mountains of Arkansas
    The only reason that I run a new case thru a die is to true the neck and even then I only partial resize. I have seen a few cases with a dented neck.
     
  15. Edarnold

    Edarnold Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Messages:
    640
    Location:
    Northern Illinois
    Federal Gold Medal Match is considered the benchmark for factory accuracy ammo. Does anyone visualize the guys loading this ammo resizing their new cases before they load them? Ever see anything on any of the match-grade factory loads suggesting the cases have been through a sizing die before being loaded? I'm sure they toss out any cases with dented necks or ragged mouths, but outside of that I'd bet they use their brass as it comes off the presses. Because it just doesn't make that much of a difference, unless you are a bench-rester and need that last 5% of accuracy.
     
  16. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,203
    Location:
    The Peoples Republic of IL
    I've never had pistol brass sized properly when new and that includes starline.
     
  17. Hondo 60
    • Contributing Member

    Hondo 60 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2009
    Messages:
    5,614
    Location:
    Freeport, IL
    The issue I see, is then you run the risk of setting the shoulder back & making 'em too long.

    Personally? I think I would've sized & deprimed.
    But that's just me.
     
  18. Blue68f100

    Blue68f100 Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2011
    Messages:
    4,225
    Location:
    Piney Woods of East Texas
    I run all new brass through a sizer. Mainly to straighten out any necks that may have got dinged during shipping. But recently I have been working on a 458 SOCOM which the spec has yet to be finalized. So everyone has their own idea as to what they think it should be. What I ran into was the new Starline brass shoulder is at 0.000" to -0.002" which is zero head space or 0.002" to long. This is using a test gauge that was made with the same reamer as by barrel.

    Bottom line, It never hurts but if you don't, you may be pulling a lot of ammo down if it doesn't fit.
     
  19. Sunray

    Sunray Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    11,573
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    New brass is not sized by the factory. New brass is not ready to load. Even the high priced stuff from Lapua requires checking the length, chamfering and deburring and FL resizing.
    Factory "accuracy" ammo has nothing whatever to do with new brass. However, factory ammo is sized, etc. when it's loaded.
     
  20. .452

    .452 member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    110
    From Starline
    s FAQ:


    Q-Does one need to full-length size brass prior to loading?



    A-Generally speaking, Starline cases require no resizing prior to loading. Due to variances in diameter of different bullet types, it is a good practice to size the case only as far down as the bullet seating depth. When full length sizing is required, it will be noted in the box with the brass. The only Starline cases requiring full length sizing prior to loading are the .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, and sometimes the .45 Colt(Depending on the bullet diameter to be used).
     
  21. snuffy

    snuffy Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Messages:
    2,926
    Location:
    Oshkosh Wi
    IF your inside chamfer a case neck that is NOT round, has a dent, or is just oval shaped, you will NOT get an even cut all the way around the edge. Being that the tool is round it cannot follow dents and bent cases. While Lapua brass is very uniform it still has dings and uneven case mouths. The box I have is far from ready to load with any kind of precision as to the condition of the edge of the case mouth. Get a 20X magnifier, a good source of light, spend some time looking!

    Exactly! But what I've found is that you can run new cases all the way into a FL die without needing to lube them. Possibly the expander may need to be lubed as it withdraws from the neck, which I do by pressing the case mouth into my RCBS lube pad. That straightens the case neck making it nice and round so it's evenly chamfered.
     
  22. joem1945

    joem1945 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2014
    Messages:
    2,017
    If I buy new brass I always size it. It might say ready to load but I'll size it anyway.
     
  23. ljnowell

    ljnowell Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,203
    Location:
    The Peoples Republic of IL

    Yep, I read that too. Made me try it. I found that 45 ACP, 357 mag, and 45 colt all needed resized. That's the only brass I've bought new from them. All three were loaded with lead bullets too.
     
  24. Arkansas Paul

    Arkansas Paul Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2009
    Messages:
    7,662
    Location:
    Central Arkansas
    Like ljnowell, I have found Starline .45 Colt brass to need sizing prior to loading.

    I have actually never purchased any new rifle brass so I do not really have an educated opinion on that. I suppose the thing to do would be like rc said and neck size new brass to make sure.
     
  25. .452

    .452 member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2015
    Messages:
    110
    From experience I can vouch that .454 Casull cases should be at least checked when brand new.

    Maybe a pattern forming here- straight wall cases don't go through a necking die at the factory?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice