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Long eye relief or standard scope

Discussion in 'Long Gun Accessories and Optics' started by RedAlert, Feb 15, 2016.

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  1. RedAlert

    RedAlert Member

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    I'd like some comments about the pros and cons of a forward mounted long eye relief scope position (ala scout rifle) versus a normally mounted scope and standard eye relief.

    I'm trying to decide if I want a scout style rifle or a conventional rifle either semi-auto or bolt.

    Thanks.

    Red
     
  2. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    There are only 2 reasons to use a scout type scope.

    #1, there is no other way to mount it.
    #2, you want to be able to use optics and load with stripper clips. This is the only reason Cooper chose the forward mount on his scout concept.

    Some claim they are faster and they can be used with both eyes open. Maybe if compared to high magnification scopes mounted conventionally or if someone doesn't understand how to use a scope. If you want to shoot fast a low powered optic mounted conventionally is just as fast and easy to use with both eyes open.
     
  3. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I have one rifle with a Scout Scope.
    It is Marlin 94 .44 Mag Guide Gun with a 2x Leupold pistol scope mounted forward of the receiver.

    Pro:
    Unlimited vision both through it, and around it.
    VERY fast to get on target.
    I wanted to leave room behind the scope for Williams receiver sight BUS.

    Con:
    You are very limited to low power scopes with enough field of vision, and that much eye relief.

    Bottom line, I like it, a lot for a close range brush gun.

    image.jpg


    rc
     
  4. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Scout type is better than a side mount that was used on Win M94 top ejections.
     
  5. Corn-Picker

    Corn-Picker Member

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    I think the modern red dot sight is superior in most ways; faster on target, lack of parallax, and more durable. They even sell flip up 3x magnifiers for red dot sights (though presumably that would allow parallax to creep in).

    I'd choose a conventional mount over a scout style. A low-power scope is plenty fast on target in the conventional position, you'll have a much wider pool of scopes to choose from, and the rifle will probably balance a little better.
     
  6. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    In my limited experience . . .

    Scope mounted over the receiver -

    - 4x and up work well and don't lose too much field of view through the scope.
    - Most rifles are ready to accept this type of scope mounting.
    - Rifle less likely to have a rear sight or any sights these days.


    Scope mounted in front of the receiver (scout type) -

    - Best suited to 3x or less. Personal preference is 2x at the moment.
    - Long sight radius rear sight always ready for use with front sight. Just take off the optic.
    - Field of view is truly no issue with 3x or less scopes as the field of view around the scope is vast.
    - More room for your fingers while working the bolt quickly. With a receiver mounted scope that is set low for good cheek weld, there is less room for the thumb and finger to work a bolt. I tend to knock my thumb knuckle on a receiver mounted scope when moving the bolt quickly. This isn't a concern with a "scout" scope.

    Since a red dot was brought up -

    Comparing a scout scope to a red dot, the red dot has the low light advantage with no worries about eye relief (unless a prism red dot). Yet, a 2x or 3x slim bodied scout scope, with proper eye relief, seems to "float" the reticle out there in front of the shooter. Much like a holographic red dot would.

    If one chooses a fixed power lightweight scout scope, the weight is hardly more than a non-micro red dot. With the advantage in magnification going to the scout scope.

    Anyway, it just depends on what kind of shooting one wants to do.

    EDIT to add :
    Another thing in comparison of red dots to scopes. If a red dot doesn't appear focused due to personal eye limitations, the red dot can't be focused for clarity. The prism type usually can, but you are stuck with short eye relief. Where as most scopes have an eye piece focus of the reticle.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2016
  7. greyling22

    greyling22 Member

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    I've tried mthe scout concept on a couple guns. It's OK, but I vastly prefer a regular scope. Much better fov.
     
  8. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    Yes, extended eye relief equals small field of view. Very hard to get on a moving target. I had one and I hated it.
     
  9. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    I disagree.

    Yes, the field of view in smaller through the tube.

    But there is way less obstruction closer to the eye blocking everything around it.

    With a 2x scope, and shooting with both eyes open?
    You have almost an unlimited FOV, except for the 2x spot and X-hair in the middle.

    rc
     
  10. Tedzilla

    Tedzilla Member

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    Did you have one eye open or two? If used properly (2 eyes...) the opposite is true.
     
  11. Tedzilla

    Tedzilla Member

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    Steyr Scout as designed to Col. Cooper's specs didn't use strippers... It had the scope mounted for a very specific advantage over conventional rifles. Try a real scout rifle, it'll be an eye opening experience...
     
  12. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    I do believe the key here is keeping a scout scope at low enough power. I've tried a 4x in the scout position and I really didn't like it. It was too much power to take advantage of two eye shooting, and the field of view through the tube was limiting. IMO.

    Now, choosing 2x like you have? It's almost like shooter's heaven. :cool:
     
  13. RedAlert

    RedAlert Member

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    Interesting viewpoints. Thanks.
     
  14. sage5907

    sage5907 Member

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    I stand corrected. The scope that I had was a Leupold 4X compact scope, not a extended eye relief scope. Using it was like looking through a straw. The scope was mounted on a 222 Remington that was used for turkey hunting. At that time in Oklahoma it was legal to take turkeys with a rifle and I used turkey hunting to practice my deer hunting skills. When I get something I don't like I usually give it away. That scope went to Billings, Montana with a friend and I was dam glad to git rid of it! The best scope that I ever used for close range quick shooting was a Leupold M8 4X and I still have several of them.
     
  15. Crowcifier666

    Crowcifier666 Member

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    My burris is 2.75x and I love it. No problem hitting 6" gong at 200 yds, 3/5 hits on 12" at 300 yds. Don't see a higher power scope working well with the scout concept, i.e., combat accuracy.

    I see the scout scope's niche as the speed of a red dot, meeting the accuracy of a scope.

    I have the Burris on my Ruger GSR, but I'm looking to mount a higher power conventional scope to see what the rifle, and myself can do.
     
  16. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    IDK whether Cooper used strippers or not...that's between him, wis wife, and Jesus...

    More to the point his idea was for both eyes open. Would the red dot work like a scout scope on a Scout rifle as well?

    Greg
     
  17. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    IMO, yes. I have a red dot on a .22 WMR "cub scout" as seen below.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. ExAgoradzo

    ExAgoradzo Member

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    Thanks,
    Greg
     
  19. rbernie
    • Contributing Member

    rbernie Contributing Member

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    My experience completely aligns with rcmodel's statements. For offhand shooting, especially at moving game, nothing beats the FoV of the scout style mounting. For shooting from more stable field positions/rests at relatively still targets, the scout's advantages are less relevant.
     
  20. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

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    I flat out don't see well out of scout scopes and I've looked through a bunch. I say look through a good one and if you like it then go for it. I have a friend who sees fine through scout scopes. It is just me.
     
  21. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

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    I have a Ruger #1 RSI and it's a royal PITB.
    My Redfield Rev 2-7X won't work.
    Eye relief shrinks over 4x, gotta crane to use it.
    No way it'd work with hunting coat on.

    Solution is older 2-7X VX2. Those have more tube ahead of turret assembly.
    Leupold and Redfield Rev show tube length ahead of turret, before objective flare starts, at 1.90". It's more like 1.75".

    Offset ring at front gets a little, but then the turret assembly hits the rear ring.
    Solution is two offset rings (as if one isn't ugly enough).

    So I'm on the hunt for an older 2-7X or a fixed 4x.

    Until then.............I have a 30mm reddot in a Ruger 30mm ring at the fwd position on the quarter rib.

    Kinda my cheapo Euro boar rifle look LOL.
     
  22. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

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    Thought about a microm but those IMHO need to be closer to the eye.
    Did not care for my TRS25 on a .22 handgun at all.
     
  23. Hookeye

    Hookeye Member

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    Had the AR build to check.
    FSB was tweaked to straight, rear sight is DD non adjustable for vert.
    90 yards I'm just a little low and left. Aim 2 oclock on clay pigeon and it breaks. Front sight did not want to adj down so if bottomed I'll have to grind the post.

    No big deal, all I want is a 100 yard zero.

    Some folks on other forums claim such a zero is for hillbillies............well yeah, 'cause we shoot at little critters with our rifles (like chucks).

    Not every AR owner needs to bonk steel silhouettes at 300 plus.

    Iron sights, dead on at 100 works fine for me.
    ..................

    So out came the 700. 4-12X AO leupold. No handloads, so grabbed reserve box of WW 80gr factory. Just checking to see if gross impact change after some minor stock work. Yup. Got that dialed in, well as good as it can get.
    Rifle did not like that factory ammo. LOL 12X made the group look horrible, until I went down range.

    Good enough for yotes w factory ammo, but not chucks. Might yank the scope and put on target 22 rf. For yotes (no chucks around anymore)............don't need more than 3-9X.
    ...........................

    The last rig I shot............my #1 w a reddot on quarter rib. What a hoot!!!!!!!!!!!! the thing is a tank, so holds great. No mag...........clays at 100 were easy offhand.

    Odd setup (hey after watching Euro boar hunting vids with Merkels running Aimpoints, it's as close as I can get).

    But dang if it wasn't fun.
    Only issue: needs cheekriser.

    Ring spacing won't allow for 2-7X Leupold (new style). Older might work. Past 4x you gotta be a giraffe.

    Offset rings........ugh.

    100 yd and in deer hunting, this thing might be the ticket!

    View attachment 742003
     
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