Long Freebore Rem 700 .308

[hentown]

I always thought freebore was the length of the leade? I recently sold both my 700 varmints, only because I became bored with bolt rifles. I did a lot of experimenting and found that there was no "magic" distance off the lands. Everything changes when you change bullet design and charges.

I always used a benchrest follower and loaded one-at-a-time...never used the magazine. I could load out to the lands, if necessary.

 

[USSR]

Now you've got me nervous.

Do you think my 44 gr IMR 4895 in Mil-Surp brass are unsafe???

No way in heck would I shoot them. I got high velocity/pressure at 42.5gr of IMR4895 with LC brass. The problem with the .308 Winchester is, you've got to pay attention to what brass is being used, since there is a big disparity between load data using Winchester commercial brass and 7.62x51 milsurp brass.

Don

 

[BigG]

You are not measuring that correctly according to the way the calipers are set in the pic. The jaws should span between the two furthest holes from the inside of one to the outside of the other. That pics looks like you have a full bullet diameter added to the group. IOW, if you read that to be 1.2", subtract .30 or whatever the bullet is to make it 0.90"

 

[Hungry1]

No way in heck would I shoot them. I got high velocity/pressure at 42.5gr of IMR4895 with LC brass. The problem with the .308 Winchester is, you've got to pay attention to what brass is being used, since there is a big disparity between load data using Winchester commercial brass and 7.62x51 milsurp brass.

Don

You are not measuring that correctly according to the way the calipers are set in the pic. The jaws should span between the two furthest holes from the inside of one to the outside of the other. That pics looks like you have a full bullet diameter added to the group. IOW, if you read that to be 1.2", subtract .30 or whatever the bullet is to make it 0.90"

Good info fellas. Thanks!

 

[Ken70]

Remington is doing the same thing Weatherby has always done; lots of freebore to let the bullet get moving before it hit the rifling. You can have lots higher pressures and not blow up the gun. Think of it like a 10 pound trigger pull, it's something to help prevent you from hurting yourself.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

In Wetherby's case...it resulted in higher velocity...in Remingtons case is results in nothing...the reason Remington does it this way has nothing do with the reason Roy did it...factory Remington barrels are well known for lower velocity with any given load.

 

[Ken70]

In Wetherby's case...it resulted in higher velocity...in Remingtons case is results in nothing...the reason Remington does it this way has nothing do with the reason Roy did it...factory Remington barrels are well known for lower velocity with any given load.

Care to explain how Remington manages to slow down the bullet? Undersize bore with lots of friction? I'm curious. That's something I've never read or heard about in 20+ years of being in the gun culture. I've only read that 700's were one of the most accurate rifles around. At least before Cerebus bought them....

 

[Walkalong]

Weatherby basically used the extra freebore as extra case capacity, giving a little insurance with his large overbore cases loaded to high pressures. The added velocity was due to charge weights and pressure, not because of freebore.

With standard .308 ammo in a long freebore 700 barrel pressure goes down and so does velocity.

The handloader can take advantage of it if they desire to.

 

[243winxb]

I read the Hornady 9th edition, which explained how fire formed brass would fit the chamber better and align the bullet with bore more precisely.

In your opinion, why would FL sizing help?

FL sizing lets the round find its own center in the chamber. Not all chambers & bores are in alignment. Plus the bolt face may not be square to the chamber. Its hard to compare FL & neck sized with the same load. The neck sized case has more volume, after its expanded to the chamber. You want everything the same for each loading, if possible. FL sizing does this. But both may work. Testing is the only way to know with your rifle.

make it 0.90"

Not a bad group, your getting there.

 

[Ken70]

Weatherby basically used the extra freebore as extra case capacity, giving a little insurance with his large overbore cases loaded to high pressures. The added velocity was due to charge weights and pressure, not because of freebore.

With standard .308 ammo in a long freebore 700 barrel pressure goes down and so does velocity.

The handloader can take advantage of it if they desire to.

Weatherby could get the velocity and pressures because the bullet had .75" of free bore before it hit the rifling. Without the free bore, he couldn't use the powder charges he did. Set the bullet .020" off the rifling in a Weatherby chamber without the free bore, probably blow up the gun. So it was both, free bore combined with the huge powder load. You had to have both to get that Weatherby speed.

Remington decided to use free bore to make a safer rifle. At least one that didn't have a propensity to come apart if the charge was a little too hot. How about Winchester, Savage, Ruger, Browning and the other rifle makers? Did they use a long free bore as well? Their lawyers telling them better safe than sorry?

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Winchester does not do this...at least not the FN built guns...they have short throats, any bullet can be jammed into the lands and still feed through the magazine...just another good reason to call it the riflemans rifle.

 

[Ridgerunner665]

Care to explain how Remington manages to slow down the bullet? Undersize bore with lots of friction? I'm curious. That's something I've never read or heard about in 20+ years of being in the gun culture. I've only read that 700's were one of the most accurate rifles around. At least before Cerebus bought them....

Rough bores...

The internet has plenty of bore scope pics that show how rough the bores are...they are accurate...but the barrels are almost always on the slow side.

Been in this game a while myself...lots of things that have been true for years...and I didn't know them either until I took the time to do the research.

As to Remingtons being the most accurate rifles around...that's just not true, never was...the reason they have that reputation is because most people use the 700 action to build custom rifles...not because it is any better...but because its what the military uses, and they use it because at the time when they decided what to use...Winchester as a company was in shambles, the guns were fine...but slower and more expensive to manufacture...so uncle Sam gave the contract to Remington...Remington does know how to build a quality rifle, no question about that...its just that they give us the watered down version.

After getting to know my model 70...the 700's fall short, and that's coming from a guy who was once a die hard Remington man...proof of that can be found right here on THR in my older posts, along with why I now shoot and recommend Winchester.

Any brand of rifle will likely be reasonably accurate these days...even the really cheap ones...there is more to a fine rifle than than the barrel...a rifle is the sum of all its parts....stock, trigger, action, and barrel...some are better than others for certain things.

And everybody has an idea of what's prefect in their mind...I'm not trying to bash anybody's choice...you have yours, I have mine....and life is good.

 

[Walkalong]

Weatherby could get the velocity and pressures because the bullet had .75" of free bore before it hit the rifling. Without the free bore, he couldn't use the powder charges he did. Set the bullet .020" off the rifling in a Weatherby chamber without the free bore, probably blow up the gun. So it was both, free bore combined with the huge powder load. You had to have both to get that Weatherby speed.

Remington decided to use free bore to make a safer rifle. At least one that didn't have a propensity to come apart if the charge was a little too hot. How about Winchester, Savage, Ruger, Browning and the other rifle makers? Did they use a long free bore as well? Their lawyers telling them better safe than sorry?

I believe we said essentially the same thing.

 

[Ken70]

I believe we said essentially the same thing.

We did.