Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Macchina, Mar 2, 2013.
There ain't no "One size fits all."
Try to find any books by the late,great, Jack O'Conner who has explained the art of game shooting at extended distance in terms that the average guy can understand.
"The Hunting Rifle" is a super start, "The Rifle Book" just as super.
Jack was the Outdoor Life Shooting Editor for a number of years, and wasn't REALLY a fan of "Super Duper, Humpty Dumpty " Magnum calibers.
His indisputable theory was of course "SHOT PLACEMENT" and a real respect for the hunted animal.
Of course, bullet selection means a lot and you have several options these days, especially if you reload.
I can (and have) shot at 300 yards, no problem there. Finding a place to shoot 400 yards gets a bit tricky and even 300 yards is a whole lot of walking when you don't have a spotting scope...
There is a line that occurs between 300 and 400 yards where shooting transitions from point to calculating. I was wondering about shooting just past that line.
I take the advice from people who have hunted at 300+ yards and keep my shots within 300 yards. In my experience when I'm in the woods I get within 100 yards of deer ACCIDENTALLY all the time if the wind is in my face. I have to believe I can get to within 300 yards in open country if I play the wind and stay low.
Then you are using the wrong 30-06 bullets.
Not to get on another topic, but I load 150's, 165's and 180's in my 30-06. I'm getting 3050 fps from a 22" barrel and could match your 3100 fps if I had a 24" barrel. The slightly better BC of the 7mm bullet does give it an edge, but I'm still good on energy for deer past 600 yards and only have 3" more bullet drop at 400 yards.
I'll give a slight edge to the 7 mag, but either round is better than I'm capable of shooting.
Actually shooting 150 in both is working at a handicap. The 30-06 shooting 180's and the 7 mag shooting 160's is a better choice because of much better BC's in both bullet weights. Bullet drop at long range is only 2-3" more, but the energy numbers look much better for both.
With the heavier bullets both are legitimate elk guns to 500 yards. Farther than I will take a shot.
My thoughts exactly, could not have said it better................
Retained speed and energy via a high BC is one thing, and entirely necessary to ensure quick kills. But if the bullet starts out at mediocre speeds such as the 7-08 and 308 do in the first place, I would be pumping up to a more powerful round.
400 plus regular shots? I would be thinking 7mm Rem Mag or similar. If I was shooting it enough to be comfy with the rifle, I would probably think the 300 WM class of cartridges.
No, I know we are not hunting elephants, and I am not a he-man; there is not a single magnum in my safe. That is because most days 300y pulls me up and the 308/30-06 class cartridges have all the oomph I need for that. My 270 Win allows me to stretch out a little to around 400 yards with 150g bullets with a BC of over 0.5, but only on a good day with very little wind and when I have been practicing a lot.
To the OP, I implore you to keep your shots to ranges at which you have practiced to the point of consistent proficiency. If that's 500y then all well and good, but at those ranges I would be using a heavier hitter than a 7-08 and probably more than a 30-06.
I have a 7mm Express and i don't feel my friend's 7mm Magnum has anything on me: a couple hundred feet per second doesn't matter in the woods IMHO
The guy is talking about shooting game. Are you for real? Who shoots game at 1000y? One hunter in probably two thousand, that's who. Maybe you might just be setting this bloke up to fail...
I totally agree with your statement that 200fps means stuff-all in the woods. But at 600y it becomes more of a factor because that 308-class bullet is running out of juice to deliver the goods on game. Unless you are dropping that pill into his brain.
Anyway, as you put it, I am open to suggestions. Maybe you can put some data or other info up to convince me that a 6.5-08 (are you talking 260 Rem?) can deliver those goodies at 1000y?
My post might sound inflammatory. It is not deliberately. But unless you are an expert shooter (and lets face it who is?) you are giving the OP unrealistic expectations, in my view.
I vote for: proceed forward with the 7mm-08
Spend the money you've got on a range finder. Then go practice for the ranges you're thinking you might need and find out what you're capable of. ...And it's probably going to be really windy.
Oh, good grief! Followed by; Bah and Humbug!
The 7mm/08 will do just fine, practice with it.
You do not need heavy bullets to make the ought-6 effective beyond 400 yards.
Antelope are plentiful in Wyoming, lived there for decades & got mine damn near every year. Then I moved to Montana, there's a few here too. If you have to shoot more than three hundred yards to getcher goat in Wyoming you aren't hunting correctly.
The longest shot I've taken an antelope with was in Montana. The gun was a Winchester model 70, .30-06. The bullet was 150 grains and it entered the animal about 2 inches from exactly where I wanted it to. I wanted to hit the spine just in front of the shoulder. Instead it went in just under the spine & just in front of the shoulder. That made no difference, he was rolled over D-E-D when I recovered from recoil. There was a good breeze (Rocky Mountain front range winds) coming over my left shoulder when the shot was made. The laser confirmed range was 470 yards. The scope was a 10X max power with normal crosshairs. However, I did know the gun, the load, the game, and the territory.
and this ^^^
I have to take issue with that. First off you know that a 6.5-08 is a .260 Remington right? Now a 260 is a fine cartridge and it is also my favorite deer rifle but a 1000 yard deer gun it is not. Most people would agree that minimum energy for deer is 1000 ft/lbs and 1500 ft/lbs for elk. Loading the hottest handload with the highest BC bullet and assuming a long barrel to get it up to speed, you still drop below 1000 ft/lbs at 800 yards and 1500 ft/lbs at 500 yards. Most of our hunting bullets like to be moving at least 2000 fps to expand properly and you drop below that at 600 yards. Now I know that there are plenty of deer out there that have been killed with less energy than 1000 ft/lbs, many poachers use 22 mags that don't come close to that much energy at the muzzle. But we are talking about taking an ethical long range shot here not a perfectly placed head shot from a few yards away using a spotlight. At 1000 yards there are way to many variables that can factor in to chance less that optimal energy. At that range an accurate 1 MOA gun will only shoot a 10 inch group and that is assuming the wind doesn't change. You could even shoot thru several different wind currents all moving at different speeds and different directions moving your bullet feet off target. Do not claim that a 260 Remington is a 1000 yard deer rifle. Sure some people can shoot it well at that range, but they are shooting paper, not deer.
What he said.
We're talking basic deer/elk hunting.
I prefer .284 bullets over .308 bullets for long range shooting. If you want to get a new rifle, I don't think you could go wrong with a .280 Remington or even a 7mm Rem Mag (if you like the recoil).
.260 Remington, methinks.
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