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Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Walkalong, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Ruger Hawkeye Long-Range Target
    47183.jpg


    Do they shoot as well as the Ruger Precision Rifle (AR 15), which has garnered a good reputation for accuracy, at least in its price range.

    Any cons to them?

    I ask because I am considering trying the PRS game (They have a place in my state) and they have a "production" class (Less than 2K rifle and less than 2K scope) division as well as a "senior" category.

    Looks like the Savage GRS could be a viable option as well. Thoughts?
    sa-22597-10grs-6mmcreedmoor-generic-profilepsd-1762795.jpg

    Any other options? Not ready for a 4K rifle (Drool) and 3K scope just yet, gotta start saving my pennies, plus find out if the game is for me. :)

    Any and all insight is welcome. (Scopes too)
     
  2. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    Man, that Ruger looks like a lot of rifle for the money. I wonder who makes their barrels (maybe in house?). There's been some debate on the accuracy of hammer forged vs cut rifling barrels, but I know from my own experience with my FN SPR that hammer forged barrels can be accurate.

    I think I'd have to give that Ruger a try.
     
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  3. Captcurt

    Captcurt Member

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    You might want to check out the Bergara line. I received a HMR for a friend and gave it a look. Didn't shoot it but was impressed with what I saw.
     
  4. cdb1

    cdb1 Member

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    I’d take a Bergara over either Ruger but have no idea how they compare when it comes to price.
     
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  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Begara has two rifles in the under 2K area. 14 HMR (1K range) and 14 HMR Pro. (1700 range)
     
  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Would love to hear from folks who have shot any of these rifles (Ruger, Begara, Savage, etc) in this price range or have friends who have and get accuracy etc feedback from real world experience.
     
  7. crestoncowboy

    crestoncowboy Member

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    I have a 110 bat in 338 Lapua and for a target rifle it's about as good as one could get for under 2k in the caliber. Insanely heavy though. But great for long range target. The ruger and other savages I can't say that ive shot.
     
  8. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    I think the Ruger will be better suited to PRS games than the Savage GRS. Little more barrel weight, straighter forend to sit on barricades. Nice, big port for clearing any issues (Savage has too, unlike most Rem clones).

    I have Ruger Hawkeyes, have worked on a buddies Bergara and shot with it a bit, and have a couple Savages.

    Relatively unique to the Ruger is controlled round feeding. CRF is an advantage for ejecting slowly to not scatter brass, but even though it’s really a push feed capable controlled round feeder, it’s really not as easy to drop one into the port of a Ruger M77 MkII action and snap over like it is with the typical push feeders used in the game. Some stages will require you to port feed, some mag failures will require you to port feed, even some stage designs where a mag reload would be allowed, but too slow, so you throw one into the port from the quiver instead of a full mag change.

    Challenging for the Ruger is a proper trigger. Timney, Jard, Rifle Basix, and SpecTec all make good triggers for the M77 MkII’s and Hawkeyes, and Ernie makes spring kits for the factory triggers, but none really want to get you down under a pound. The factory trigger, as is, won’t be good for the game, flat out. Any of these options mentioned will just be OK. Correcting the sear angle and adding an Ernie spring will get you a really good trigger, but still heavier than I want in a match rifle.

    Extraction can be an issue in the Savages, and feeding. I mentioned my dislike for the forend and light barrel weight for the game use. I could tolerate an accutrigger if tuned down low enough. The buttstock is a hard pass for me - that hugger hook is huge. Some guys like a hook instead of an angled stock, but I like the elevation control of an angle. I can tolerate a hook if it’s small and offers a substantial bag rider. I handled a GRS at our local Cabela’s, I don’t think it would be happy on a bag at all - I know I wouldn’t be happy with it. Also, you’ll likely see some “off-hand” stages or opportunities within stages, and the asymmetrical grip will fight you on it.

    The Stealth and Stealth Evolution could be better options. The Stealth on the MDT LSS needs a longer forend, but that can be remedied easily enough with an ARCA rail/spigot. The Stealth Evolution is an option.

    I would buy the Ruger Hawkeye over the Savage. RPR over the Hawkeye. And I’d think hard between the Bergara and the RPR. I walked into Cabelas to buy an RPR in 6 Creed (ended up getting one later anyway), but bought a Seekins Havak instead. It’s still a Production class rifle, but much, much closer to a competition ready rifle than these others. They just dropped a version which comes with a KRG Bravo stock/chassis, which is very suitable for the game.

    All of that said as a guy who LOVES Ruger M77 MkII’s and Hawkeyes.
     
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  9. troy fairweather

    troy fairweather Member

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    i had my hands on the ruger for about 2 minutes. if i was looking for a new rifle that ruger would be the one. the bergara are nice to.
     
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  10. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    Havak++
     
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  11. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    One thing against it for "production class" which doesn't allow aftermarket triggers.
     
  12. jmr40

    jmr40 Member

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    The Ruger 77 series rifles are as rugged and reliable as anything made. One would be at, or near the top of my list if the rifle absolutely, positively had to function. And while they can be very accurate, by hunting standards, I believe they are somewhat handicapped as a precision rifle.

    I also have a couple of Ruger Predators in 6.5CM and 308. They are remarkably accurate for a $350 rifle. From what I see the Precision Rifle isn't any more accurate. Same barrel, same action, no reason it should be. For my uses it isn't worth nearly 3X as much money for the stock.

    My experience with the Bergara is limited. But I did buy one in 6.5 CM that I ran across a good deal on. Price is normally about $700 for the sporter, I got one for $550. With limited trigger time it is no better, or worse than the Ruger as to accuracy. It is aesthetically much better looking, but it is also heavier, borderline heavier than I want in a hunting rifle. This winter after hunting season I'm going to shoot both the Bergara and Ruger and keep one, sell the other. I do like a lot about the Bergara, but wouldn't pay double the price compared to the Ruger. At the price I paid I might just keep it. Or if I can sell it slightly used at a small profit that would certainly be a consideration too.

    I know this isn't exactly the info you're looking for, but these are my observations and hope it helps.
     
  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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  14. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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  15. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    That’s the new one. I’m driving now and can add one in a bit, but there are pics of my Havak PH1 on here all over. I have the hunting version with a heavily fluted midweight barrel and a McMillan Game Warden stock, otherwise, it was still the same Timney 510, Rock Creek Barrel, and Seekins Havak action as the new Bravo model.

    Huge advantage to the Havak - it eats from AIAW mags with a smile on its face, which is super nice for matches.

    For Production class coming in under $2000, I don’t think there is a better option on the market than the Havak models.

    I might point out, however, I wouldn’t sweat Production class vs. open, especially at club level matches. Maybe you have a really high popularity area with 150 dudes entering club matches, but most are small enough, any classes besides open would just be a few guys. Production class then only really matters at the big national series matches. I’d build/buy a rifle you like which suits you for the game and shoot the hell out of it.
     
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  16. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Kind of looking that way. A Havak in 6MM CM to start looks good.
    I have no idea how many people Alabama Precision draws for matches. It's a bit closer than Fayette Al where I used to shoot Benchrest matches (It's closed now). And close is good for me, as I don't see myself doing any real traveling (Long story) to compete, certainly not anytime soon.
     
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Still open to rifle suggestions, but I guess I might as well ask about scopes as well.

    I have read this thread with interest and have shopped around online looking at 2K and under scopes, but naturally I drooled over the 3K ones as well. The Kahles with the windage on the left and parallax on top ("Around" the elevation knob) is cool. Not in the cards, but very nice.

    In Benchrest I held for wind and eyeballed that, but it was all small holds. Do people dial elevation and use crosshairs (mil) to hold for wind? Dial everything? Use the Horus, G2 "Christmas tree" type reticles and hold for both? Does PRS require one or the other or both (dial it and/or hold for it?

    I bought this Bushnell 6-24x50 scope that someone posted about when it got down to $562.87, and it could work, but wouldn't mind putting it on my FN-SPR .308 that I consider a 600 yard rifle, replacing a very nice Sightron SIII 8-32x50 (56?) 2nd FP scope, although it works just fine sighted in at 300 and working with the 2nd FP limitations.

    Very interested in scope suggestions/experience as well.
     
  18. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    @Walkalong

    You can get a used Kahles k624i for ~$2,200 (their new k526i has driven down the price). That’s within striking distance of your budget.
     
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  19. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    I’m not a fan of kahles. I’d look for a used vortex gen2. They’re $2500 list so you should be able to get one under 2.

    To answer your question it’s a mix. Some hold. Some dial. Good shooters doing both. Sometimes you don’t have time to dial though.
     
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  20. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    I have a friend that has the Vortex Razor GII. I wouldn’t take two of them in trade for one of my Kahles. Just goes to show how individual preferences vary when it comes to scopes

    PS: when i was looking for my first high end scope I was leaning heavily toward the Vortex. My gunsmith talked me out of it and into the Kahles. I’ve had no regrets with that decision
     
  21. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    Sure. If reticle choice and light weight is more important than durability... I’d take them for benchrest over the vortex.

    if you get a kahles, baby it.
     
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  22. cheygriz

    cheygriz member

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    You can find some awesome scopes from Night Force,Vortex and Swarovski in the under 2K range.

    Night Force, especially, has an excellent variety.
     
  23. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Member

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    Going by the numbers, Nightforce pretty much dominates precision shooting, be it PRS, bench rest or F Class
     
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  24. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Production class doesn’t care what you pay for the scope or rifle, it only cares about the MSRP. Getting used stuff under $2k won’t qualify.

    I’m really happy with my DMR II from Bushnell, which fits into Production Class.

    Yes, we dial elevation/range and hold wind, most of us anyway. Most matches will have an “all holds” or “dial 1” stage, so a guy still needs to know how to float the hold well, and I do try to practice using my Christmas Tree a lot at club level matches to stay fresh on it (G3).

    My point about big matches vs. club matches is the fact there may not be enough guys at local matches to create a division, and even if they do, might only be 5 guys. Most club matches I have been to just run everybody open.
     
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  25. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    Sounds good, but would kick me out of "production" (Scope under 2K list) class. Not sure if that is any big deal though. Might be no deal. It never hurts to buy more scope.
     
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