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Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Walkalong, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Gonna be in the fourties in the AM, high in the mid sixties. Downright cold for us. :D
     
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  2. GoldieMI

    GoldieMI Contributing Member

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    28 and Windy as I drink coffee with the dog
    Enjoy the match today!
     
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  3. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    Shoot straight @Walkalong

    There was a regional NRA High Power match this weekend but I have family in town so had to skip it
     
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  4. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    On the way home, one word, brutal.

    My buddy Jeff and I have now shot all five Altus one days this year, today being the finale. We were 20th and 21st coming into today. He shot fairly well, I did not, not consistent enough. Would have cleaned the second to last stage for our squad, but was a fraction of a second late with the last shot at 840, a small circle, very small. Al said he made the course tougher for the finale, top shooter, unless something changed with the last squad shooting, dropped 17. Jeff dropped 35. I haven’t seen mine yet.

    Wind was switching back and forth, dying at times. Good shooters getting 2s and 3s.
    7C7E5B2C-663A-47B4-91D9-5D810D86085F.jpeg E7207729-DE80-42E2-8C8F-52A230B15BEA.jpeg 8A3854A1-4519-43DF-BD1C-198CEDEE460E.jpeg A8F2BDD3-5427-4CF9-8F71-5E80BA81164F.jpeg
     
  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    On the way home, one word, brutal.

    My buddy Jeff and I have now shot all five Altus one days this year, today being the finale. We were 20th and 21st coming into today. He shot fairly well, I did not, not consistent enough. Would have cleaned the second to last stage for our squad, but was a fraction of a second late with the last shot at 840, a small circle, very small. Al said he made the course tougher for the finale, top shooter, unless something changed with the last squad shooting, dropped 17. Jeff dropped 35. I haven’t seen mine yet.

    Wind was switching back and forth, dying at times. Good shooters getting 2s and 3s.
    7C7E5B2C-663A-47B4-91D9-5D810D86085F.jpeg E7207729-DE80-42E2-8C8F-52A230B15BEA.jpeg 8A3854A1-4519-43DF-BD1C-198CEDEE460E.jpeg A8F2BDD3-5427-4CF9-8F71-5E80BA81164F.jpeg
     
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  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    On the way home, one word, brutal.

    My buddy Jeff and I have now shot all five Altus one days this year, today being the finale. We were 20th and 21st coming into today. He shot fairly well, I did not, not consistent enough. Would have cleaned the second to last stage for our squad, but was a fraction of a second late with the last shot at 840, a small circle, very small. Al said he made the course tougher for the finale, top shooter, unless something changed with the last squad shooting, dropped 17. Jeff dropped 35. I haven’t seen mine yet.

    Wind was switching back and forth, dying at times. Good shooters getting 2s and 3s.
    7C7E5B2C-663A-47B4-91D9-5D810D86085F.jpeg E7207729-DE80-42E2-8C8F-52A230B15BEA.jpeg 8A3854A1-4519-43DF-BD1C-198CEDEE460E.jpeg A8F2BDD3-5427-4CF9-8F71-5E80BA81164F.jpeg
     
  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh yea, had a great time! :)
     
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  8. Legionnaire

    Legionnaire Member

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    Jealous. My work schedule has been a killer this season; I've done NO shooting for a couple of months. On the plus side, my new MPA arrived this past week, and the 419 Hellfire brake and ARCA Harris adapter I ordered should arrive on Tuesday. I have all I need to put together my first test loads. Hopefully I'll be able to provide a range report before too long.
     
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  9. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Seeing that school bus stage in @Walkalong’s post reminds me: School buses are relatively common props, and I tend to shoot from a bus at least once per year. But admittedly, every single time, I’m reminded just how much larger I am as an adult than I was a a kid... A shooter wouldn’t usually consider a school bus to be a real challenge, but they often are. The windows don’t align with the seat rows in sequence and seats aren’t built for adults, nor as shooting supports, so shooting various windows from various seats at various angles of fire will dictate multiple awkward shooting positions - I’m actually envious of the relatively benign position pictured above, usually I end up contorted between the kid-sized seat backs; those windows are very long.
     
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  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Yea, usually they have it oriented (angle to target), so it’s harder to get a good position. It was comparatively easy this time.
     
  11. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    blame me for that.
    bus.jpg

    when i started hosting matches in TN, the land was owned by a logger friend who had a sawmill and he used to wear out log trucks, and then get cheap replacement parts from school buses which shared a lot of components. end result was he had quite a few junked out school buses laying around which we used as props.

    The picture is from our first match (2010 or 2011?), which was a team sniper match where we shot from a barn into this bus. We had IPSC cardboard targets and hostages wearing clothes. The targets were 4 IPSC targets. Only A-zone head shots count (about 2"x3"). 2 shooters. 8 seconds. They were arranged so that hostages were obscuring parts of the targets, and one of the team would have a better shot than the other. They had 3 min prep to talk it out and figure out who would take what shot.

    Following matches, we shot from the bus. K&M got a few buses and did the same stuff the following year when they first opened in Florida. They had a much bigger budget and got much nicer buses lol.

    here's a hint for shooting from a bus... as you said, the seats don't align with windows. obviously engineered by the same people who package hot dogs and hot dog buns. take your tripod, legs extended but not spread out, and simply lay it across the seat backs parallel to the windows. put your game changer or whatever rear bag on the tripod leg and use it for rear support. now you can slide it back and forth to transition between targets without rebuilding an uncomfortable position on the seatback.
     
  12. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Altus has a stage where we shoot at rebounding heads in bus windows, shooting from a bus as well, plenty of misses on that one. I think the first head has a force shield, I have seen folks miss five on it and hit five on the other one, both the same size.
     
  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I saw a fellow do this at a match and copied him, worked great. Bring a monopod.
     
  14. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    One of our state PR club ranges used to have a handful of trucks and cars to use as props, both as firing positions and target positions. However, last year a couple over-zealous neighbors filed complaints and tried to get the range shut down - we were able to repermit and keep the range open, but had to do tens of thousands of dollars of infrastructure work, which we all paid, in part just to stick it to them for being pricks... but despite winning the war, we did lose the battle of “abandoned vehicles” on the property, which violates state and county regulations. Naturally, anyone with common sense would recognize that a target prop is not an abandoned vehicle, but the zoning commission gave the complainers that little victory.
     
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  15. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    After some reading around, I'm thinking I might try adding a step to my process and start using expanding mandrels to set my neck tension. There seem to be a lot of folks out there who claim they are getting better consistency than with just bushing dies.

    I'm curious who uses mandrel dies to set neck tension, and what brand is expander mandrel die you use? The Sinclair die system seems to be pretty popular, but is not available, Wilson is another option and is available. With both of those two, it seems like there is only one size option per caliber and it is 0.001 under bullet size, what do people do if they want tension closer to 0.002"?
     
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  16. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Sinclair Carbide mandrels are available 1 and 2 thou under. I own a few of the 1 thou under mandrels, but almost unilaterally use 2 thou unders.

    If you’re neck turning and have uniform necks with a quantified thickness and monitored springback, then bushing only is great. But it does dictate the shooter/loader pay extra attention, and if springback isn’t quite what you expected, missing the mandrel is like missing a QC step.
     
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  17. GoldieMI

    GoldieMI Contributing Member

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    I started with the Sinclair in 308, but bought the 21st Century kits for 6mm for my Dasher and other 6mm Cartridges.
    I'm using the 2 thou under size
     
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  18. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I have 21st Century and Sinclair nitrided expanders. I have a Sinclair, a 21st, and a PMA expander die body. All are good, I prefer the Sinclair Gen II body.

    As posted, if you turn necks consistently enough, expanders aren’t really needed. I did this (turned to nearest.0001) for my Benchrest gun (6 PPC) with its tight necked (.262) chamber
     
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  19. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    i use 15 yo sinclair mandrels. prefer using an expander to keep neck straight
     
  20. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Well alright, that seems like a pretty resounding endorsement from everyone. I don't neck turn and don't intend to, I have small kids and not a lot of time so I'm always on the lookout for efficient improvements, and it sounds like adding a mandrel expander step would be a good idea. I kind of like the Sinclair die, just need to find it in stock somewhere and pick up some .002 under mandrels. Thanks.
     
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  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I have a couple of Gen I older than that, bare steel back then
     
  22. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah. You’re saying they’re coated now? Lol but unavailable?
     
  23. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    No, just no such thing as titanium nitrided expanders back then.
     
  24. Nature Boy

    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    Same here
     
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  25. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Alright, I've got a PMA Tool die body on the way as well as Sinclair carbide expander mandrels in .241" and .262 and a .265 bushing (in case my .266 doesn't size the neck enough for the mandrel to do its thing). Thanks for the recommendations, luckily the PMA Tool, can use Sinclair and 21st century mandrels (and maybe vice versa?), Since it looks like the Sinclair has been out of stock with no option to backorder a while.
     
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