Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Walkalong, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Kinda the same boat around here. One of our state club ranges will host a couple progressive prone matches over the winter, but I usually take weird, non-PRS stuff to those anyway, so it’s deer season next week, then coyote season... a little practice to be ready for the spring matches, but mostly OTHER shooting...

    I did a thing for my boy this week, so he’ll have his own coyote rifle...

    75EEFF4C-8596-4490-87B3-9A4424812A54.jpeg
     
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  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Sounds fun.

    I meant to get some pics of us today when we checked zeros, got numbers, and then shot at 200 and 300 yards.

    SK says my Long Range Match goes 1106, 10 shots today went and average 1105. Jeff's SK Rifle Match was within a couple FPS of the stated velocity as well. Both with SDs under 10.
     
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  3. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Oh yea, the 40 Gr .22 bullet drops more at 300 yards (13.4 Mils) than my 105 Gr Hybrid in the Dasher does at 1200.
     
  4. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Makes for a lot of fun! Lol.

    Even more fun when you look at how much MORE it drops in only 25-50 more yards. Most folks don’t realize just how much correction it takes, and what you have to do to your gear to allow that much correction, to get a 22LR out only as far as 400-500 yards!
     
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  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    In very light wind earlier we were a half a mil plus off center at 300 yards and hitting the 8" plate on the right side.
     
  6. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Snuck out to the range after putting the ham in the oven at 275 at 8:00 AM (As instructed by the wife before she left). I shot at 50 yards to confirm zero, then 100, 150, 200, 250, & 300. I got velocities at the muzzle, 150 yards, 250 yards, and 300 yards. I meant to get velocity at 200 yards, but somehow flubbed that, then forgot to turn the chrono on when I went back to the 100 yard range to get numbers. *Sigh*
    SK said 1106 for the velocity, the chrono gave me an Avg 1105, so that's pretty dang close.

    50, 100, and 150 Yards
    Target @ 50 Yards.JPG
    Target @ 100 Yards.JPG
    Target @ 150 Yards.JPG

    250 Yards
    Target @ 250 Yards.JPG

    All the numbers
    Load Log Page.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  7. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Between the last post and the match I changed scopes, put the PST Gen II on the Vudoo, changed ammo, switched to the Lapua Center-X, re-sighted in, got dope out to 300 again, and took that to the match. Long story.

    Our squad shot the NRL-22 stages first (100 yards and in), then moved to the bottom part of the range and shot 50 to 150 yards. One stage there was one target 10 positions Rock 1, prone, rock 2, prone, rock 3, prone, rock 4, prone, rock 5, prone. Only one of our squad finished it, and I didn't hear of anyone in the other squad finishing it. I got to rock number four and timed out. We had a couple other stages there with a lot of movement as well. We had two stages where we had to shoot unsupported, one standing, one prone. I cleaned the KYL rack unsupported prone, only one in our squad to do so.

    But back to stage one.......round jammed, had to pull the mag, jammed again,......shot a four. Turns out the bag would touch the mag, tilting it down and I'd get a jam. Did that again stage two, then a third time, even trying to keep the bag away from the mag, which wasn't as balanced. Then I noticed a fellow with a Vudoo who had a make shift piece that mounted on the arca rail and blocked the bag from hitting the mag. I talked with him and it turns out he had the same problem and that was his fix, said other Vudoo shooters were putting velcro on mags etc. I'll be making one of those. He was real nice and let me borrow it, and that solved the feed issues. He would use it, then me, very kind of him. (He won the whole match).

    There were 24 shooters and I finished 12th, didn't ask how far back from 11th, doesn't really matter. Jeff finished 4th, eight behind number three. He shot real well.

    I had a lot of fun, the Manners worked just fine and balanced really well with the bipod on. I'd rather have it in a BA Comp, but the stock sure didn't cost me points, only I did. The BixN Andy trigger is superb, the scope worked really well, and I did a lot of holding, over and under, making hits easily as long as I was steady on target. More holding up/down than I've done in the last two or three PRS matches. Too much movement for dialing.

    The NRL-22 stages
    IMG_5652.JPG IMG_5651.JPG


    The bottom stages were made up by the rangemaster, and he warned us they'd be tough.

    Here is a couple of pics shooting our squads last stage (2.5" circle at 110 yards off the post, hit it you leave the rifle and run (walk) to a spool behind us, miss it, you have to stand unsupported and shoot a popper at 50 yards until you hit it, then go touch the spool. My worst stage. *Sigh* (forgot to get the block from Jeremy and had jams, big dummy.) Edit: Remembered wrong, that was the stage before where I recovered well, just bombed this one. :)
    IMG_0625.JPG
    IMG_0628.JPG

    IMG_0630.JPG

    Yep, managed to miss one at 110 off the post....but I did hit the popper at 50 unsupported and moved on.
    IMG_0631.JPG

    Overall it was a lot of fun, challenging on most stages, a couple of gimmie stages, lots of movement, holding over/under, but a lot of fun, and most of it was good practice that can be useful shooting PRS. We'll be doing it again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  8. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Was excited to get the new 308 out to the range today. Finally found some "match" 308 a couple weeks ago and ordered a couple boxes. Long story short I was not impressed with the Freedom Munitions Match 308. I made a thread about it. It's loaded fairly hot and has pretty big velocity variations.
     
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  9. Legionnaire
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    Legionnaire Member

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    Things started to come together today. First day at the range in a long time.

    Masterpiece Arms PMR Pro II in 6GT.
    mpaPMR1.jpg

    First loads: Alpha brass, CCI #450 primers, StaBall 6.5, 105 grain Berger Hybrids seated 0.010 off the lands.
    [​IMG]

    Beautiful day in Central TX. 68 degrees, 9 mph wind blowing straight from 6 o'clock. Labradar was a bit kooky today; for some reason I couldn't get the JKL trigger to work. However, the Labradar's internal sensors worked very well, so I was able to get some data.
    mpa1stout1.jpg

    I wasn't sure what to expect. Fully prepped virgin brass, new barrel break-in with 36.0 grain loads, then tried the test loads. No pressure signs anywhere in the spectrum. QL doesn't include the 6GT but I modeled one by lengthening a 6 Dasher case. Numbers track well, and estimated peak pressure is just under 50,000 psi.

    I was pretty pleased with the results. Loads less than 37.5 grains were sub-moa, but things started to tighten up at 37.5. I dropped the first shot at 38.5; it broke before I was fully settled. Still ended up under 0.75 inch.
    mpa1stout2.jpg

    The range from 38.8 to 39.4 looks promising. 39.7 and 40.0 were still sub-moa, but started to open up again. I may try again when the barrel settles in.
    mpa1stout3.jpg

    Once I got home, I measured the fired cases' length and H2O capacity (45.5 grain). 50 once-fired cases are deprimed and tumbling. Anneal and resize tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I broke down and ordered a 12 round Vudoo mag so I will have one for 12 round stages. Only one that holds 12 (They also have a 15), is the Vudoo aluminum mag which they are very proud of, but Jeremy, who lent me a plastic 10 rounder for the 12 round stage at the match, said it was his best feeding mag, so that helps my feelings a little bit.
     
  11. Gtscotty

    Gtscotty Member

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    Looks like a nice rig! I'm sure you're aware, but Hodgdon has load data online for the 6GT, including StaBall. Also, Hornady is coming out with a factory 6GT load using a new 109gr ELDM bullet... I'm looking forward to giving that a try.
     
  12. Legionnaire
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    Legionnaire Member

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    @Gtscotty, thanks. Yes, I looked at Hodgdon's data. Different 105 grain bullet, but in the range. I just traded into some Sierra 107 gr MatchKings I can try out, too.
     
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  13. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Question for you guys as you all are the ones who probably will know how to figure this out.

    I got a buddy who is shooting a competition called Black Rifle. It's like a mix of PRS and IDPA but done exclusively with carbines. Shots are from CQB out to 500ish yards.

    My buddy was looking into buying match grade ammo because he was missing a 450 yard silhouette with his AR carbine.

    Talking with him it sounds like he was probably canting his rifle. I was explaining that cant will shoot rounds to that side.

    But does anyone know an actual way to measure this?

    Say a 12.5 inch 5.56 shooting M193 with a lower 1/3 mounted red dot and a 45 degree cant.
     
  14. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Alright I think I figured this out. Let me know what you guys think.

    Height over bore for a lower 1/3 mounted red dot is roughly 2.8 inches. So a 50 yard zero has the barrel angled in such a way that the bullet travels 2.8 inches up to the line of sight at 50 yards. So a rifle tilted a full 90 degrees on its left side would have the bullet move 2.8 inches to the left for every 50 yards of range. At 450 yards this would move the hypothetical (no environmental influence) point of impact 25.2 inches left of point of aim.

    In my thinking a 45 degree cant would be half of that variance and any other degree of cant could be figured out by using it to figure out what percentage it is vs 90 being the full amount.
     
  15. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Using the scenario of a 2.8” optic height laid on its side, then the sensitivity to angle is actually WORSE than that estimated above, because you not only have the 2.8” of optic height compensation, you have the 50yrd absolute gravitational drop compensation, which is another half inch at 50 yards. So 3.3” per 50… 29.7” off of target to the left, and 1/2” low. That is… assuming perfectly horizontal…
     
  16. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    I thought about that but I didnt think it would be enough to really measure.
     
  17. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I've been saving up for better glass, have had some good on call weeks (Lots of call ins), and just sold 40 hours of PTO, so........

    ARC Engage rings, Zeiss LRP 5-25X56 scope. Will give it a test drive soon.
    IMG_5856.JPG IMG_5855.JPG
     
  18. Nature Boy
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    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    man that’s sweet!
     
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  19. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Sure hope so. Was leaning towards a Nightforce before these came out. :)
     
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  20. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator Staff Member

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    Holy cow. It would take me 3 weeks just to figure out how to use a scope like that.
     
  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Not a smart fellow like you, an hour, max.
     
  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    A couple of the more helpful videos I have bookmarked.







     
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  23. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    We had a discussion about reticles, here is the one from the Zeiss.
    The fat part of the reticle looks like it should help center targets at low power.

    5X
    Screen-Shot-2021-10-15-at-8.54.54-AM.png

    25X
    Screen-Shot-2021-10-15-at-8.55.52-AM.png



    Zeiss 3-18 (left) & 5-25 (right) on targets
    Screen-Shot-2021-10-15-at-9.50.13-AM.png
     
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  24. Cowhide Cliff

    Cowhide Cliff Member

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    I love your setup, that is just about like my new rifle except for the glass. After seeing yours I'm now more curious why my barrel is setting up out of the barrel channel too far to have the front cap on the chassis forearm. I might have to pull it apart or inquire with the guys at Alamo the reason for that. Mine is a 737 action in a matrix chassis and if I'm not mistaken this is what you have here correct?
     
  25. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    In reality - if you’re shooting the distances we’re talking about, shooting a “conventional” scope takes a LOT more practice and knowledge to figure out. That’s why we pay more for these tools.
     
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