Long Range Rifle/Scope/PRS question(s)

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Walkalong, Dec 21, 2018.

  1. rdnktrkr

    rdnktrkr Member

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    ouch twice the pain, I moved about 28yrs ago and couldn't imagine doing it again..(28yrs of clutter)
     
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  2. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Going to shoot an NRL-22 match at Altus tomorrow, will get some pics.

    Have a new toy to try out, a Gray Ops quick disconnect (Mini Plate Pro) plate and matching Armageddon bag.
    47124125-95B0-4B3E-BC32-75D74EA814B6.jpeg 874D6F83-58A7-4000-A174-5F1EF6AD79A6.jpeg

    I already have one of their Bipod QD Arca Clamps on a Gen II Atlas and it’s great.

    https://grayopscnc.com/collections/arca/products/bipod-qd-arca-clamp
     
  3. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I couldn’t find my aluminum Vudoo mag that doesn’t jam when a bag pushes on it and never made the little stop, even though I have the parts, just busy I guess, that’s my excuse.

    So, jammed the first stage, recovered and only dropped one, made it through the first seven stages not dropping more than one or two per stage, had a train wreck on eight and nine, finished ten with a six.

    Jeff caught me there, so he finished 8th and I finished 11th. 29 competitors.


    So a fun day, gonna order another Vudoo aluminum 12 rounder, and make the little stop before I go again, come hell or high water.

    I sure hope I find the one I already have, laid my eyes on it in the safe when I was moving, gotta be somewhere.

    One of the 100 yard ranges, more NRL-22ish stages.
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    New part of the range, shot out to 300. I finished the five rocks stage under time, dropped one, but then train wrecked the next two. Sigh
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  4. horsemen61

    horsemen61 Member

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    @Walkalong looks fun do you enjoy the rimfire stuff more or less than center fire?
     
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  5. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    They are both a lot of fun in their own way, hard to say.

    NRL-22 is cheaper.

    .22 LR gets real squirrelly out past 200 if the wind is gusting. I missed a full sized ipsc at 300 2/3 times. I had a lot of company there.
     
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  6. horsemen61

    horsemen61 Member

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    I see what do you think of that impact 737 action? Would it be a good all around action for I dunno range use maybe some light competition throw in a smidge of hunting?
     
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  7. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Phenomenal actions. A bit expensive just for casual use, but if budget isn’t a concern, I’ve never felt a smoother action which felt as tight, but would still run even when caked in moon dust.
     
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  8. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

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    Lone Peak is nice as well, some would argue that they are smoother than Impact. I tried them side by side and couldn't really feel a big difference but went with LP because they are here in Utah.

    LP makes a titanium version if weight is a concern.
     
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  9. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    The Impact is simply awesome, runs slick in real use, not just cycling the bolt. Run it slow, run it fast, run it lightning fast, it doesn’t care, just works effortlessly.

    Not cheap, but you’ll never regret buying one.
     
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  10. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Yesterday was the first time Ive shot 168 SMK 308 out at distance. I was always told that they completely fall apart when they hit transonic so Ive been avoiding them for the past 20 years. I recently got some 168 FGMM for a great price and the APR shoots them great at 100 yards so I took them to the long range. To my surprise they shot great all the way out to 1040 yards out of my 20 inch barrel. Took 11.6 mils and once I figured the wind I went 2/3 on a silhouette with the miss going just under the target. I scored first round hits on targets at 640 and 780 yards.

    So is the stories about 168 falling apart at range BS or what? According to Strelok the bullet was traveling around 1080 FPS at that range. Weather was 90 degrees, 5 percent humidity, and 1400 feet elevation.
     
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  11. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Pics from yesterday. Played with the barricades a little bit.

    51965475933_cee913d9a0_o.jpg 20220327_150536 by chase, on Flickr

    51964409527_f655a23ed2_o.jpg 20220327_151058 by chase, on Flickr

    51965693984_3a8d85f9bc_o.jpg 20220327_151303 by chase, on Flickr

    51965693949_29ff0fa5e6_o.jpg 20220327_151903 by chase, on Flickr
     
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  12. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Pretty much.
     
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  13. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Sweet! Awesome place to shoot
     
  14. MarshallDodge

    MarshallDodge Member

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    No personal experience as I shoot 155s but it isn't complete BS. Brian Litz discusses it in his book. The theory is that the CG and boattail shape can create inconsistencies when the bullet goes transonic.

    Your density altitude was probably high enough that it didn't matter.
     
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  15. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    There’s definitely a destabilizing smack on the ass when bullets pass through the transonic boundary, but folks talk about it like bullets completely lose steerage. I can’t tell you how many guys have TOLD me that bullets start tumbling when they fall sub-sonic… some bullets make it through better than others, and some science, pseudoscience, or straight up voodoo is emerging around how to help bullets transition more smoothly (Tubb nose-rings, as an example). It’s pretty common to be able to hold a pretty stable group size at say, 800-900 through something like 1100-1300 for many competition cartridges, but then open up to groups as much as twice as large at 1400-1500. Pretty similar to the experience guys have with 223/5.56 at 600-800, then the wheels get wobbly 900-1000, or 308win’s reputation for difficulty passing 900-1000. The bullets don’t fall out of the air, they just pick up a little disturbance along the way as the flow regime shifts along the length of the bullet.
     
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  16. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Yep, they don’t hit a brick wall, “fall out of the sky”, start tumbling, etc, it simply experiences turbulence as it goes subsonic, which of course affects group size/accuracy.

    As posted, some bullets handle it better than others, longer barrels/more speed gets you further before it happens, thinner air helps get you farther, etc.

    Some people just use longer .308 barrels and lighter bullets for more speed, think Palma rifles.
     
  17. taliv

    taliv Moderator Staff Member

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    But… the 308 168g smk has a reputation for being easy to load, super accurate, and falling out of the sky at 900yds. I’d guess it’s one of the worst performers through transonic among common match bullets, enough that the slight 4% bump to 175g made a huge difference.
     
  18. Nature Boy
    • Contributing Member

    Nature Boy Contributing Member

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    180 SMKs have the same boat tail geometry as 168 SMKs and I was able to keep a stable 1/2 MOA 5 shot group from 100 yards through 1,000 yards with a .308 (at least on this day ;) )

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Shot the Vudoo at 150, 175, 200, & 300 yards today getting ready to shoot an NRL-22 match tomorrow.

    Strelok Pro does great to 100ish yards with the factory FPS and BC, but I haven’t been able to make it work out to 300. If I get that right, I’m off at 75 to 125ish.

    150 yards. 3.8, 4.0, & 4.2 Mils
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    200 yards. 6.8, 7.0, & 7.2 Mils
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    300 yards. 12.8, 13.3, & 13.6 Mils
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    Centered pretty well.

    6C931260-A907-4DD2-BFC0-9F02AA8508DD.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2022
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  20. C-grunt

    C-grunt Member

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    Great shooting. A precision 22 is my next rifle.

    I'm looking at the Bergara B14R. Still deciding on the optic.
     
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  21. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    The Bergara shoots very well.
     
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  22. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    Have three stages to go, Jeff and I both cleaned the rock stage

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  23. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    I got up at 4:00 this morning to go to the match, and I’m just now sitting down in my chair after showering. Long day, 12 stages, but they drug around starting and took a long time getting scores.

    Jeff and I both had 93 hits, but he was better on the tie breaker and NRL scores weird, I had a 900 and he had a 931. He was 9th and I was 12th out of 43 shooters. Unlike last time I finished strong today, cleaned 3 of 4 of the last stages with a 8 out of 9 on the one I didn’t clean. Two were generous targets, but hey, not everyone cleaned them.

    I’ll sort pics tomorrow and post some. Jeff hasn’t sent me the ones he took yet.

    A random shooter from our group.
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  24. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator Staff Member

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    He just sent a couple of me on the Tank Trap
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  25. Varminterror

    Varminterror Member

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    Our State PR club hosted a “new shooter train up” at one of our member ranges this weekend, bringing 11 new shooters into the shallow end of PRS competition. We shot half of the day on a KD range out to 1400 yards, establishing solid zeroes, building DOPE, and truing ballistic engines, and then the second half shooting PRS match type stages with coaching and corrections ongoing. A great experience which pulled a few new shooters off of the couch and onto the range.

    One of the shooters brought his 10yr old son along for the ride, and after being relatively bored for most of the day, I offered to let him run my rifle out on the KD range, since his dad’s lighter 6.5 creed was a bit more recoil than he wanted to tolerate for many rounds. He took a couple of dry fire strokes to get comfortable with the trigger, then attempted the 300yrd plate. Impact. Then the 400 - just off of the edge, correction, Impact on the second shot. He then progressed with first round hits out to 1000, and only slipped off of the edge of the plate at 1100, which he hit on his 3rd attempt. He seemed pretty pleased with the experience:

    9D2DE174-B40A-49D9-833B-8A7F2A1A1319.jpeg
     
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