lookin for a used 38 - what should i keep an eye out for, OTHER than a model 10?

[pauli]

old guys who sound like they know what they're talking about, i'm aiming this question at you!

i know how to look for model 10s. i'm good at looking for model 10s. thing is, it stands to reason that there are other revolvers out there (though i know some around here will argue that point ), and surely, some of them must be acceptable plinkers to use as a first revolver.

today at the chantilly show i looked at model 10s, a model 13, some model 36s, and a victory model or two. the last i stopped looking at after remembering a recent thread on the subject. the 13, obviously, is a 357, but as i recall is otherwise the same as the model 10 and would, presumably, be quite suitable, just needing that extra cleaning. the 36s were clearly a slightly smaller frame.

what should i be keeping my eye out for? i've seen rugers, taurii, rossi's, colts... what am i likely to find in the cheap range, and of those, what should i check out, and what should i avoid?

 

[Jim March]

Old Charter Arms CAN be good, or they might be horrible. QC varied. Unless you really know these and can spot one made during the "good periods", I would say avoid.

Dan Wessons are safer, and are often astonishly good values. Way underrated. There WERE some bad ones. Ditto the old Ruger Security/Service series of course, although far fewer baddies.

Run checkouts. On ANYthing.

If you're on a severe budget: look for heavy holster wear. Old cop guns that have been carried heavy, shot light are legion, esp. 38s made 1960s or earlier. By the 70's and the era when 357s were more prevalent, police shooting practice had gone up severely (to the point where they were wearing out S&W 19s and such).

Old Colts: these can be *wonderful*, but...they're often not what you want for high-volume shooting. Gunsmiths that know how to re-time these properly are dying off. I won't say "avoid" but, be aware of issues with these.

High Standard 38s/357s were made by Dan Wesson, and can be often had even cheaper than an already underpriced Dan Wesson.

 

[TNGO]

A couple of suggestions:

Mdl. 15, a K-frame .38, adjustable sights.

Mdl. 67, stainless version of the 15.

My mother owns a 67; it's a fine revolver.

 

[Majic]

Who you calling old?
D-framed Colts are another good example. The Police Positive Special can be found at good prices.
If just plinking then don't rule out the single action revolvers.

 

[sm]

Partial to...
Model 10, 13 , 15, 19 [ blue K frame S&W]
Model 64 , 66, Ladysmith 65 [stainless].
Model 36 , 37, 042, 442 [ blue steel or blue steel and Al on last three]
Ruger Speed, Sixes, Security Sixes , Sp101
Colt D frame [ I'm warming up to them as I finally have spent time with one]

 

[HappyHunter]

TNGO was right on. As well consider the 64 it is the stainless version of the model 10. The model 19 is a .357 with adj sights. the stainless version is the 66. All these are K frame size, as is the m 10.

I would (actually usually do) look for the experienced Smith & Wessons, they will appreciate and if you look to trade/sell down the road you will fare much better than if you purchased a new revolver.

HTH,

Fred a/k/a HappyHunter

 

[Bullet Bob]

For a plinker, not a concealed carry gun, get a S&W model 14 (also known as a K38 Masterpiece). They were S&W's target guns when revolvers still ruled the range, and are true classics. Not too heavy or light at about 38-39 ounces, they have great triggers, good sights, and are usually very accurate. They came in 6 or 8&3/8" versions (and some very rare 4" versions) - get the 6". Used, they can be bought from $300 - 350.00.
They are a true classic in every sense of the word, and I don't think a better fun gun can be had, unless maybe it's the .22 version, the model 17.
I have all the S&W models mentioned in this thread, and a couple more; none are better for fun at the range than the 14. There's an excellent article on them in the 2003 Gun Digest, if you can find one.

 

[greyhound]

I have a Model 64 police trade in that I would not part with for any price.

(It was my first, after all )

Only thing I did was take off the Pachmayr Grippers and replace with classic "checkered S&W logo" grips, the revolver seems much lighter and well balanced....

 

[JoeHatley]

S&W model 14s and 15s can often be found at bargin prices under $300 and they are all good shooters.

14-4



15-6



Good luck in your search...

Joe

 

[Johnny Guest]

BUNCH of 'em out there - - -

Smith & Wesson: The Combat Masteriece (Model 15) is essentially a K38 (Model 14) with a two or four-inch barrel. Smith also made the same revolver in .22 LR, as the Model 18. Both are (were) K-frames, direct descendants of the military & Police. The Model 67 is the M15, but in stainless.

The Model 64 is the Model 10 in stainless, and you know about the M13. M65 is the M13 in stainless.

Colt's: Their nearest equivalent to the M&P is the Official Police, built on the old .41 frame. Slightly larger and heavier than the S&W K-frame, the old models (pre-72??) have the same lockwork as the Colt Python.

The OP was made during WW-II in a Parkerized finish and was called the Commando model.

The OP with 6" barrel and target sights was called the Officers Model Target, Officers Model Match, and Officers Model Special. Same revolver with 4" heavy barrel and adjustable sights was the Trooper. Later, the Trooper was also chambered for the .357 ctg.

Sometime around 1972, Colt's changed the lockwork on this size/series of revolvers and called them the Mark III series" OP MKIII, Trooper MK III, and Lawman MK III (fixed sight .357.) I'm sure there were at least a couple of others.

Colt's also produced the Police Positive Special, an excellent but smaller framed revolver, in .38 Special. This was their justly-famed D-frame series. With a 2" bbl, it became the Detective Special. The DS, with alloy frame, became the Cobra and Agent. The PPS, dolled up with adjustable sights, underlug barrel and rib, was the Diamondback.

Others have already touched on the excellent Ruger series. Jim March mentioned the Charter Arms revolvers - - Most of us think of the two-inch versions, which are most common, but they also made a good number in four-inch. Decent revolvers, but they just don't hold up as well to really heavy use.

Spend some time browsing around the used gun counters. If you find a friendly clerk, you can learn a lot, and may find some outstanding bargains.

Run checkouts. On ANYthing.

Jim March wrote that above - - Maybe he's too modest to mention that he ALSO wrote a truly excellent checkout procedure for the benefit of all - - It is found as a float at the very top of this forum, entitled, Revolver checkout: how to tell if a particular specimen is any good. You'd be well advised to print this out and memorize it, or carry it with you while shopping. It can save you some costly errors, and may even show some sharp salesman not to bother trying to palm off junk on the new guy.

Best of luck to you - -
Johnny

 

[Cosmoline]

I think Colt's Police Positive Special is vastly underrated (though this seems to be changing). The Colt Official Police is also good, but tends to be a notch more $$ because it is better known. I found my PPS to be the best balanced and nicest shooting .38 Special I've ever had. It's the perfect size and weight for the cartridge, and shooting traditional lead RN bullets it is amazingly accurate. One of the few handguns even I can keep in the black with. I also love the grip. It's narrow, and the frame is designed to rest very deep in your palm for maximum control and instinctive aim. DA trigger pull is very very different from Smith-style pulls, but once you overcome the strangeness of it you will find it works remarkably well at actually keeping you on target.

I defy anyone to hold a PPS and resist saying "Git in da caah, ya ugly mug!"

 

[TrapperReady]

[HOMER]
Mmmmm.... Model 15.... MMmmmmmmm....
[/HOMER]

Seriously. I like the Model 10, but the 15 is (IMO) a better firearm. I picked up a beautiful 15-2 earlier this year, which my wife claimed as her own after the first 6 shots she took with it. This is from a woman who doesn't even like handguns very much (more of a shotgun gal ). Mine is bone stock and easily has the best trigger of any gun I own.

 

[Cosmoline]

All-in-all, I think you'll find some amazing values on old holster-carried .38 specials. They get poo-pooed as too weak for serious work and too larger for CCW. So those who don't know better pass them up for some flashy new master blaster.

 

[Johnny Guest]

Cosmoline wrote:

I think Colt's Police Positive Special is vastly underrated . . .

Isn't THAT the truth? I'm looking for one now. Significantly smaller and lighter than the good ol' S&W M&P, but still an all steel gun. I want one from the late 1950s, into the '60s - - With the rounded butt and wooden factory stocks, to which I would add a Pachmayr (preferably) or Tyler adaptor.

I really like the idea of the four-inch barrel PPS, to get the benefit of the added velocity, but, then again, a THREE-inch Detective Special just looks so darned CUTE! Either way, it would accept some fairly vigorous loads. I would NOT run a steady diet of +P ammo through it, but it wouldn't shake to pieces when occasionally fired with the carry load - - Rem 158 LSWCHP+P. (Though I intend to take a hard look at the newer Speer 135 GDHP . . . .) Member Clark writes of some unbelieveable loads he's tested in some older PPS revos, though. They're stronger than I would have thought, but I'd still not like shooting one loose.

Best,
Johnny

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I am pretty partial to the diamondback if you want a smaller frame and the 38/44 series. The 38/44's are my favorites, both the outdoorsman and even though I can only find 5" barrel heavy duty's I still like them. Rumor is that heavy duty's had adjustable sights and 6" barrels, but I have never seen one.

 

[Bullet Bob]

I convinced myself - I went out and bought yet another model 14 today, this one is one of the single-action only models. Can't have too many, you know.

 

[Gunsnrovers]

are you asking because you can't find Model 10's in your area or are you asking because there is something you don't like about them?

 

[Majic]

Rumor is that heavy duty's had adjustable sights and 6" barrels, but I have never seen one.

Weren't all adjustable sighted .38/44s named the Outdoorsman? I have the .38/44 Outdoorsman Model of 1950, also known as the Pre-23.

 

[Model520Fan]

Weren't all adjustable sighted .38/44s named the Outdoorsman? I have the .38/44 Outdoorsman Model of 1950, also known as the Pre-23.

Yup. The Heavy Duty, of course, was a pre-20, later an actual model 20.

 

[Dr.Rob]

A Colt PPS or OP would be dandy. A DS is a must have.

Ruger's old Security Six was a pretty nice revolver too.

I haven't seen too many 38/44's show up for sale around these parts but there is definitely something "old school" about them.

One neat .38 I saw was a near NIB Colt New Service, parkerized with British proofs in 38 special with a 4 inch barrel... he wanted too much mony for it but man did it look cool.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

As a minor correction to the 38/44 heavy duty comments above. There are said to be 38/44 heavy duties with target adjustable sights and non-grooved frames from the pre-war period. My understanding is the difference between the 38/44 heavy duty and the 38/44 outdoorsman is the grooved target frame, sometimes called the "NT" frame vs. the "N" frame which was smooth.

Facts time here, I only have sparse few 38/44's. I am no expert. I have never held a 38/44 heavy duty target, but I have read about them over on the Smith&Wesson forum. There is one guy over there who has been searching for a 38/44 heavy duty 6.5" target for a long time.

 

[Majic]

In the days of the distant past it was much easier to place orders for the factories to build firearms with non standard features. Examples of non-catalogued firearms have always been encountered. Being special ordered usually meant that there are very few examples and can be difficult to find one.

 

[pauli]

are you asking because you can't find Model 10's in your area or are you asking because there is something you don't like about them?

i'm asking cause they can't logically be the only gun in the class worth getting. it's sorta like looking for a used car, and hearing "just get a corolla." sure, the corolla is great, but a sentra or civic will do just as well. on the other hand, a jetta might be total crap, depending on the year. i'm just looking for a better understanding of all the possibilities, cause model 10's are a small fraction of the guns i actually see available, and they're usually more expensive than people on the internet seem to think

this thread is going quite well, lots of stuff to keep in mind. any comments on guns to avoid? i saw a rossi for $125 a while back... gone by now, i'm sure, but presumably you get the idea - price is an important part of such decisions. if it weren't, i'd just be buying new...

 

[Majic]

price is an important part of such decisions. if it weren't, i'd just be buying new...

That will narrow the seach down considerably. If you post a working price range then you will get answers tailored to that. As it is people are just suggesting models that would be in the same class as the model 10 (a medium frame mid bore revolver).

 

[Gunsnrovers]

Even though they are "Corolla's", for a sub $225 price range, a Model 10 and/or the Model 15 are hard to beat. Excellent quality, great pistols.

Good luck in your search.