Looking for a recommendation regarding armed church security

[Trunk Monkey]

This poor guy should be wake up call, that a 'security team', if serious, cannot be a bunch of old farts talking about stopping power and only shooting at static square range targets. A friend of mine and I have been trying to get one of these passed the stage of a few dudes with LCPs in their pockets. The reluctance to train is well discussed among serious gun folks. We will see if the team takes it seriously. I do know some serious teams that I saw at matches and discussed their training.

A quick and dirty diagnostic would be: Do team members compete in one of the shooting sports?

The biggest problem I see with church security teams is that they're volunteers and they're usually understaffed. To a degree the church takes what it can get.

Most of the people on the security team at my church aren't what people here would call serious shooters. I was surprised at the number of team members who carried Shields because they were cheap a couple of the guys carried Taurus guns and a couple didn't carry any gun at all because it was unseemly to carry a gun in the house of God. The church provided professional training but again most of the team weren't serious about actually learning anything. I know this by the number of Uncle Mike's holsters I saw them using.

The church doesn't have any real authority over the team members except to remove them from the team. If a team member doesn't feel like showing up for a given service, they don't show up. I think I've told this before but one night I was doing parking lot duty when I saw the guy who was supposed to be on the second floor walking around the parking lot. When I rolled up on him to see what was up he informed me that he knew he was supposed to be on the second floor but that God had told him to walk through the parking lot and if I didn't like that oh well. What am I supposed to do with that? I've got no authority over the guy.

Unless the church hires a professional security team that's kind of what they've got to work with.

 

[bearcreek]

The biggest problem I see with church security teams is that they're volunteers and they're usually understaffed. To a degree the church takes what it can get.

Most of the people on the security team at my church aren't what people here would call serious shooters. I was surprised at the number of team members who carried Shields because they were cheap a couple of the guys carried Taurus guns and a couple didn't carry any gun at all because it was unseemly to carry a gun in the house of God. The church provided professional training but again most of the team weren't serious about actually learning anything. I know this by the number of Uncle Mike's holsters I saw them using.

The church doesn't have any real authority over the team members except to remove them from the team. If a team member doesn't feel like showing up for a given service, they don't show up. I think I've told this before but one night I was doing parking lot duty when I saw the guy who was supposed to be on the second floor walking around the parking lot. When I rolled up on him to see what was up he informed me that he knew he was supposed to be on the second floor but that God had told him to walk through the parking lot and if I didn't like that oh well. What am I supposed to do with that? I've got no authority over the guy.

Unless the church hires a professional security team that's kind of what they've got to work with.

The answer to those dilemmas lies outside the purview of this forum. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Seems like you should basically view the "security" team at your church as not being so much of a "team" as they are an additional challenge as you attempt to provide security.

 

[Craig_AR]

Laws and practice differ in each state. Here in Arkansas the Jan 2d edition of the Arkansas Democrat Gazette has a front page article on the topic:
Central Arkansas churches on their guard
Arkansas changed the gun-free church law in 2013, but there are still some churches that insist on no guns. The article has interviews with reps of both types.

Spats McGee, not sure what part of the state you are in, but you may find teh article interesting.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

I am part of a church security team for a church with three services on a weekend and an average service attendance of 600. Physically speaking as well as in terms of attendance, it's one of the larger churches in our city (although we have an incoming church plant from an extremely large megachurch). On average we have four team members in a given shift. Firearms carry is at the discretion and comfort of the team members, and additionally we don't really have a way to know how many congregants are also carrying. This is a source of minor discomfort to me, as from the people I know who are carrying, most are carrying small pocket pistols. I always carry a full-size Sig P320, as I have discovered that I cannot hit reliably at 25-50 yards with my smaller guns, and there are plenty of places inside the church building where the range may be in excess of 20 yards.

We also implemented the locked-doors approach - we have at least a dozen external entrances, but only four accessible without a key card. We do lock the children's ministry wing external doors 15 minutes after service starts, and there are greeters at every public entrance. Typically we have a security team member at all the main entrances. The main entrance security team member doesn't move much, but the other three will move around after the majority of people have arrived. We have a full security camera system as well.

Our team is primarily responsible for safety issues, but all are BLS-certified. We live in a city with a major medical center that is the primary employer in the city, and so we also have a dedicated emergency medical response team that consists of volunteer care providers at the R.N. or higher level, and any given service probably has a dozen physicians in it, although I can't say for sure that if something happens in terms of a medical emergency that having a dozen radiologists in the room with you will help much.

Most of our problems are domestic-related or petty crime. Stalking issues, registered sex offender attendees, child custody issues, vandalism (one streak where we lost four parking lot light posts due to probably-deliberate strikes by vehicles... settled by gradually replacing all of the light poles with ones with poured-concrete cylinder bases), theft (streak of thefts from our bookstore that coincided directly with the time of arrival of a transport bus from a halfway house program for women... who are very welcome but now closely supervised while they're here).

 

[shoobe01]

We 're renting space from a school for now (a permanent location is in the works)...

First, you might talk to the school district. Carefully of course (and not YOU but Church leadership, with you there to help). Don't make them think you have a specific threat, are a high risk target, just make sure you are in compliance with their security/safety plan, and if they go "bah, never happen" bring up:

• General risk assessment issues. The White Settlement incident is just one of many.
• The district's reputational risk if an event happens.

They have security/safety plans (state law will require at least some), and may have security infrastructure which they may let you use. Both camera and access control (remote door alarms if not remote locking) systems are VERY common in schools these days. Maybe you can use that or figure out a way to get them to provide (cost though!) a

 

[TomJ]

First, you might talk to the school district. Carefully of course (and not YOU but Church leadership, with you there to help). Don't make them think you have a specific threat, are a high risk target, just make sure you are in compliance with their security/safety plan, and if they go "bah, never happen" bring up:

• General risk assessment issues. The White Settlement incident is just one of many.
• The district's reputational risk if an event happens.

They have security/safety plans (state law will require at least some), and may have security infrastructure which they may let you use. Both camera and access control (remote door alarms if not remote locking) systems are VERY common in schools these days. Maybe you can use that or figure out a way to get them to provide (cost though!) a

It's a private school. Our leadership did work with the school leadership regarding our options. Our operation's director can lock all doors through a phone ap in a matter of seconds if necessary.

 

[herrwalther]

The church doesn't have any real authority over the team members except to remove them from the team. If a team member doesn't feel like showing up for a given service, they don't show up.

My team takes membership a bit more seriously than that. Members who show up to service sign in at the entrance with the time of arrival. And time when they leave the building. If a member misses too many meetings, training sessions, or services they are removed from the team and could be barred from attending service. Our congregation is composed of a small number of regular attendees, so most people know who is on the team. I plan to pitch an idea to the Board of Directors VP to have security team members wear a pin or something to denote who is on the team to let people know who can help in emergencies or other tasks.

The security team's duties is all encompassing. I have escorted members of the congregation to their car who didn't feel safe to walk alone. Check on doors, test alarms. We even have a safe room and escape tunnel that leads to a police substation a few blocks away. We have had protesters show up to the steps of the building and hate sign graffiti drawn on the building. I have started to carry a TQ and hemostatic agent in an ankle holster during service and EDC.

 

[Good Ol' Boy]

Just stumbled across this vid on YouTube and thought it pertinent to the topic.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

We even have a safe room and escape tunnel that leads to a police substation a few blocks away.

Wait, you dug an escape tunnel to a police substation???

 

[GEM]

I'm worried that bunch of charlatans or folks with minimal relevant experience are tooling up as church experts. They couch their organization as being religious folks of faith (nothing wrong with that) which I am concerned is just PR. They have no creds from national trainers and just say they were in the service (nothing wrong with that) - but I think you need to show that you have trained how to train civilians.

 

[herrwalther]

Wait, you dug an escape tunnel to a police substation???

Lol no. The main building (where the tunnel entrance is) has been there since 1909. I have no idea when the tunnel was built, that would be something I would have to ask the elders and staff.

 

[huntsman]

I'm worried that bunch of charlatans or folks with minimal relevant experience are tooling up as church experts. They couch their organization as being religious folks of faith (nothing wrong with that) which I am concerned is just PR. They have no creds from national trainers and just say they were in the service (nothing wrong with that) - but I think you need to show that you have trained how to train civilians.

Isn’t this issue the same with any “professional” training?

You’ve got former LE or military training civilians on SD but application is still up to the individual.

I attended a 2 day course with a company that claims they are the largest instructor of church security in the US.

I can’t support or dispute their claim but I do know we learned some things that sounded reasonable that we plan to implement and even if we never have to use it we believe it was worth our time and money.

Up until this formal training we received our training from a local guy who has military and security experience.

more than once we noticed a similarly in what we were hearing to what we were taught by our local instructor, this was proof to us that we are on the right track and it’s up to us to implement and see these plans through.

 

[bluejeans]

John Lovell (warrior poet society ) has a YouTube series on church security... some good stuff.
I haven’t seen all of it but fully endorse everything I’ve head from him.

 

[zorro45]

There are pop-up ballistic curtains which are sound- actuated that sit in flower-box looking things on the floor. If you look closely at political debates you will see them in use.They go up after the first shot. There are also very stout pulpits which can be armored, these can be made in a wrap-around style that provides more protection than a simple lectern. Not feasible for a temporary or rented location perhaps without a lot of dedication and storage space on site. There has got to be a trade-off so your church does not look like a gaming den from "Apocalypse Now."