Lost and found: S&W Sigma .40

[vanfunk]

Hi All:

This is part two of my “forgotten guns” series, the other of which details my rediscovery of my 60’s Colt Agent .38 revolver. As described in the other thread, I had occasion yesterday to “unearth” a locked pistol case from one of my closets; it hadn’t seen the light of day since the Ark of the Covenant was still under warranty. So here, for your viewing pleasure, is my time capsule S&W Sigma VE .40 in all its (in)glorious form!

I remember buying the pistol new, along with a few boxes of PMC ball and Remington 180 grain hollowpoints, back when the Sigma was still “new”:but had already developed a reputation for having a terrible trigger. But it was $299 and came with three 14 round magazines! Anyway, I bought it literally to have a gunnI didn’t care about a great deal, but one that would be reliable and reasonably accurate. A “truck gun” if you will, or in my case at the time, a “boat gun.” Well, sometime after that I must’ve come to the conclusion that it was more of a “boat anchor,” lol, and I put it away for long-term storage.

Fast-forward to today, and I’ve decided to give this thing some love. Breaking it down revealed basically no evidence of use (at least I cleaned it before putting it away) and there was no corrosion or dried oil anywhere. The trigger? Oh yeah, let’s check that. Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuullllllllllll, snap. Yeah, that’s a trigger alright! BUT the gun feels great in the hand, and c’mon, it’s a stainless and polymer 15-shot pistol made by a high quality manufacturer. It just so happens to have a 10 lb, 10 oz trigger.

So I did what I thought I had to do - put a couple drops of oil on it, load up a magazine and go shoot the darn thing. The 50 acres of woods next to me beckoned, so I headed out in search of some wood mushrooms to shoot and check function. Perhaps not surprisingly, the “Stigma” performed flawlessly with that magazine of Remington hollowpoints. It wasn’t the easiest thing to shoot accurately but I’ll work on that. It had been so long since I had shot any .40 ammo and the snap of the pistol came as somewhat of a surprise to me; the “short and weak” has plenty of punch to it for defense.

So - it’s a damn good pistol, actually. The sights are fine - typical plastic three dot - hardly anything special but eminently serviceable. The stainless slide and barrel have a pleasing matte finish that ought to be fine for whatever. The stainless mags are nice and the springs have suffered naught over, I don’t know, 25 years? The grip is very pleasing and the slide stop/release is low profile but easy to reach. So does it need anything to be a perfectly good truck/boat gun? Nope. I might just keep it in a lock box in my car for “exigencies.” Or throw it in the console of my pontoon boat when I’m out on the water. Pirates, don't cha know.

Back to the trigger for a sec. A 10 lb revolver trigger is just fine in my opinion, but there’s something about this trigger that’s just too sterile to feel good at that weight. It’s hard to keep the sights aligned for that long on the pull-through. A 6 lb trigger would seem about right for this kind of deal. Spring kits must be available… i’ll get to that. Right now I am just going to enjoy my new old gun.

Anybody out there have a gun they “found” again? How ‘bout any closeted Sigma fans in the audience? What’s been your experience with these pistols?

Thanks!

 

[jmr40]

I bought one of the 1st generation Sigma's. In 5 months and less than a box of ammo it went back to Smith 3 times. It was gone about a month each time and only in my hands long enough to get to the range to shoot it. It would fire 5-6 shots then the trigger wouldn't reset.

Every time I went to UPS to ship it back, (on my dime BTW), the cute 20 something gal behind the counter said. "Should'a bought a Glock." Same reaction every time.

Finally, after the 3rd trip I told Smith I wanted a new pistol, and I wanted one of the new 2nd gen guns. They agreed, but when the new gun arrived it was one of the old versions. So, back to Smith for a 4th time. Got the same "Should'a bought a Glock" from the gal at UPS.

When the new 2nd gen Sigma came in the guy who owned the gun store where I initially bought it allowed me exactly what I paid for it on trade for a new gun. I traded it in unfired and paid the difference for a Glock.

 

[vanfunk]

10-4 on that, @jmr40, I get ya. Right now I am liking this piece precisely because it isn’t a Glock. I have this thing about trying to make cheap pistols shoot worth a damn, so I think I’ll go to work on this.

 

[Mark_Mark]

Hi All:

This is part two of my “forgotten guns” series, the other of which details my rediscovery of my 60’s Colt Agent .38 revolver. As described in the other thread, I had occasion yesterday to “unearth” a locked pistol case from one of my closets; it hadn’t seen the light of day since the Ark of the Covenant was still under warranty. So here, for your viewing pleasure, is my time capsule S&W Sigma VE .40 in all its (in)glorious form!

I remember buying the pistol new, along with a few boxes of PMC ball and Remington 180 grain hollowpoints, back when the Sigma was still “new”:but had already developed a reputation for having a terrible trigger. But it was $299 and came with three 14 round magazines! Anyway, I bought it literally to have a gunnI didn’t care about a great deal, but one that would be reliable and reasonably accurate. A “truck gun” if you will, or in my case at the time, a “boat gun.” Well, sometime after that I must’ve come to the conclusion that it was more of a “boat anchor,” lol, and I put it away for long-term storage.

Fast-forward to today, and I’ve decided to give this thing some love. Breaking it down revealed basically no evidence of use (at least I cleaned it before putting it away) and there was no corrosion or dried oil anywhere. The trigger? Oh yeah, let’s check that. Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuullllllllllll, snap. Yeah, that’s a trigger alright! BUT the gun feels great in the hand, and c’mon, it’s a stainless and polymer 15-shot pistol made by a high quality manufacturer. It just so happens to have a 10 lb, 10 oz trigger.

So I did what I thought I had to do - put a couple drops of oil on it, load up a magazine and go shoot the darn thing. The 50 acres of woods next to me beckoned, so I headed out in search of some wood mushrooms to shoot and check function. Perhaps not surprisingly, the “Stigma” performed flawlessly with that magazine of Remington hollowpoints. It wasn’t the easiest thing to shoot accurately but I’ll work on that. It had been so long since I had shot any .40 ammo and the snap of the pistol came as somewhat of a surprise to me; the “short and weak” has plenty of punch to it for defense.

So - it’s a damn good pistol, actually. The sights are fine - typical plastic three dot - hardly anything special but eminently serviceable. The stainless slide and barrel have a pleasing matte finish that ought to be fine for whatever. The stainless mags are nice and the springs have suffered naught over, I don’t know, 25 years? The grip is very pleasing and the slide stop/release is low profile but easy to reach. So does it need anything to be a perfectly good truck/boat gun? Nope. I might just keep it in a lock box in my car for “exigencies.” Or throw it in the console of my pontoon boat when I’m out on the water. Pirates, don't cha know.

Back to the trigger for a sec. A 10 lb revolver trigger is just fine in my opinion, but there’s something about this trigger that’s just too sterile to feel good at that weight. It’s hard to keep the sights aligned for that long on the pull-through. A 6 lb trigger would seem about right for this kind of deal. Spring kits must be available… i’ll get to that. Right now I am just going to enjoy my new old gun.

Anybody out there have a gun they “found” again? How ‘bout any closeted Sigma fans in the audience? What’s been your experience with these pistols?

Thanks!

View attachment 1255784

View attachment 1255785

So Old School 90’s!

 

[1lnbrdg]

Sounds like the Model 59 I purchased but and another 10lbs to the trigger . . .

 

[vanfunk]

Thanks guys! I broke down and ordered the M-Carbo spring for it; that should drop the pull down to 6-7 lbs or so. I might do some buffing with a Dremel (yes, a Dremel, bwahahaha!) to slick things up while I am in there. Maybe some Talon grip panels too as it’s a bit slippery comoared to more modern texturing. I think that’ll make it my “Honey Badger Don’t Care” pistol.

 

[Cornhusker77]

I bought my SW9VE back in 2008 because I liked the look and feel of it.
Like everybody else, I struggled with the trigger for a while, but learned how to shoot it accurately.
I used this gun for my CCW class, and was having a little trouble hitting what I was aiming at during our "Warm up" shootng.
The instructor asked if he could try it, I said "Sure",
He cut a slit in the cardboard target, put a playing card in the slot, stood back 30 ft. and split the playing card. Then he did it again.
He handed the gun back to me and said "There's nothing wrong with this gun".
He gave me a few tips, the basics really, and by the end of the day, I shot a perfect target.
Since then, I've got better guns, but I'll never sell my Sigma.

 

[jobu07]

I recently bought a LE trade in one because it was cheap and a LE trade in. I think I gave $189 for it?

A friend mentioned this MCARBO trigger kit, which amounts to one spring and a slave pin for $12. www.mcarbo.com

It was a simple install and took me about 30 minutes because I was too stubborn to go to the shop due to the cold wind and rain. They claimed to bring the pull down from 10 lbs to 5 lbs. I don't have a trigger pull gauge (mental note... start shopping) but I'd say it's 5-6 lbs now. It's still not a great trigger but it's light enough to be less annoying.

Hi All:

This is part two of my “forgotten guns” series, the other of which details my rediscovery of my 60’s Colt Agent .38 revolver. As described in the other thread, I had occasion yesterday to “unearth” a locked pistol case from one of my closets; it hadn’t seen the light of day since the Ark of the Covenant was still under warranty. So here, for your viewing pleasure, is my time capsule S&W Sigma VE .40 in all its (in)glorious form!

I remember buying the pistol new, along with a few boxes of PMC ball and Remington 180 grain hollowpoints, back when the Sigma was still “new”:but had already developed a reputation for having a terrible trigger. But it was $299 and came with three 14 round magazines! Anyway, I bought it literally to have a gunnI didn’t care about a great deal, but one that would be reliable and reasonably accurate. A “truck gun” if you will, or in my case at the time, a “boat gun.” Well, sometime after that I must’ve come to the conclusion that it was more of a “boat anchor,” lol, and I put it away for long-term storage.

Fast-forward to today, and I’ve decided to give this thing some love. Breaking it down revealed basically no evidence of use (at least I cleaned it before putting it away) and there was no corrosion or dried oil anywhere. The trigger? Oh yeah, let’s check that. Puuuuuuuuuuuuuuullllllllllll, snap. Yeah, that’s a trigger alright! BUT the gun feels great in the hand, and c’mon, it’s a stainless and polymer 15-shot pistol made by a high quality manufacturer. It just so happens to have a 10 lb, 10 oz trigger.

So I did what I thought I had to do - put a couple drops of oil on it, load up a magazine and go shoot the darn thing. The 50 acres of woods next to me beckoned, so I headed out in search of some wood mushrooms to shoot and check function. Perhaps not surprisingly, the “Stigma” performed flawlessly with that magazine of Remington hollowpoints. It wasn’t the easiest thing to shoot accurately but I’ll work on that. It had been so long since I had shot any .40 ammo and the snap of the pistol came as somewhat of a surprise to me; the “short and weak” has plenty of punch to it for defense.

So - it’s a damn good pistol, actually. The sights are fine - typical plastic three dot - hardly anything special but eminently serviceable. The stainless slide and barrel have a pleasing matte finish that ought to be fine for whatever. The stainless mags are nice and the springs have suffered naught over, I don’t know, 25 years? The grip is very pleasing and the slide stop/release is low profile but easy to reach. So does it need anything to be a perfectly good truck/boat gun? Nope. I might just keep it in a lock box in my car for “exigencies.” Or throw it in the console of my pontoon boat when I’m out on the water. Pirates, don't cha know.

Back to the trigger for a sec. A 10 lb revolver trigger is just fine in my opinion, but there’s something about this trigger that’s just too sterile to feel good at that weight. It’s hard to keep the sights aligned for that long on the pull-through. A 6 lb trigger would seem about right for this kind of deal. Spring kits must be available… i’ll get to that. Right now I am just going to enjoy my new old gun.

Anybody out there have a gun they “found” again? How ‘bout any closeted Sigma fans in the audience? What’s been your experience with these pistols?

Thanks!

View attachment 1255784

View attachment 1255785

 

[Pat Riot]

Sigma, the gun that Glock sued Smith & Wesson over.
I have never had the opportunity to shoot one.
I hope your Sigma adventures prove to be fun and satisfactory.

 

[vanfunk]

I bought the M*Carbo spring and put it in yesterday; I left out the pigtail as, frankly, I couldn’t get it back in. No matter. It’s not a 5lb trigger now as some have claimed, but 8lbs ain’t bad.

 

[Gork10]

I bought a Sigma 2nd Gen back when they were just released. Horrible trigger but it would eat just about any ammo I could find. Traded it for a CZ. Many years later I picked up a VE9. Much better. Think I paid around 250 for it. Sold it to my dad a few years later. He shot it till his passing 3 years ago. It's back in my safe now. Took it out a couple of weeks ago. Still shoots well.

 

[mindbent]

I have a SW40VE I got during the pandemic. Have about 1000 rounds through it and it still functions as it should. Only changes I made were sights and trigger (hate 2 piece hinged triggers). I put Trijicon night sights and an Apex trigger, not the kit just the trigger. In my opinion it's perfect for it's intended purpose. Defense, plain and simple. Accuracy at 30ft isn't to bad either.

 

[vanfunk]

Nice, guys! @Gork10, I like the looks of the updated model. I am currently winning an auction for a full SD9VE “parts kit”; the slide, barrel and recoil spring will slide right on the older SW frame and then I’ll have a 9mm! Not bad. I don’t know if I can also swap the fire control group although it looks like it would interchange; I might try that just because.

I finally found an ammo that the SW doesn’t like - PMC 180 grain FMJ flat nose. The nose is just a little too blunt to navigate the feed ramp and I experienced several failures to feed. No loss, it was a 30 year old box of ammo left over from the Glock 22 I bought (and sold) ages ago. Funny thing is it feeds wide, angry hollowpoints with no problems.

@mindbent, I agree with your sentiment. Better sights and an Apex trigger would be enhancements but overall it’s a darn fine pistol for defense.

 

[Dirtybob]

I have an SD40VE with over 2K rounds through it. Early on I added a Galloway trigger, MCARBO springs, and an adjustable LPA rear sight. It's not ammo picky at all and I can land hits on a grapefruit sized target out to about 35-50 yards before it starts becoming a waste of ammo.
Got to shoot a well broken in sigma 9mm that had nothing done to it other than run several thousand rounds through and I couldn't feel a difference between it's trigger pull and mine.

 

[rsrocket1]

The person next to me at the range saw and liked my shooting and asked if I would shoot his SD9VE because although he said he was a good shot (and his revolver groups looked good), he could not hit anything with his brand new SD9VE. My favorite handgun is my M&P 40 so I said "yeah, sure". My first shot was about 6" low at 7 yards. I started lining up for the second shot and stopped. The trigger took forever to break. Then I recalled S&W getting sued by Glock because of the copying they did with their Sigma.

The Glock is a "double action" striker fired handgun. That means the trigger pulls the striker back the last few millimeters before releasing it. You'll never get a 1911 break because the trigger doesn't simply release the striker. Once I started treating it more like a double action revolver, hitting where I was aiming became much easier. I told him to treat it like his double action wheel guns with a shorter trigger pull and don't look for resistance before the break and he did a lot better.

I presume the original Sigma and the new model SD9VE still share the same "double action" striker mechanism from the Glocks.

 

[vanfunk]

Hi @rsrocket1:

You are so correct that these SW-line pistols take getting used to, especially out of the box. While they are “Glock-ish” in many respects (hence Glock’s successful lawsuit), the trigger is actually quite a bit different. I can’t speak to the original Sigma trigger as I’ve never fired nor handled one, but the SW pistols are in fact much closer to a revolver DA pull than the Glock is. While the Glock partially cocks the striker upon the slide cycling, the SW does not; the fire control system cocks and then releases the striker with no preload. The Glock trigger uses the (in)famous “dingus” to prevent the trigger from moving without a deliberate pull, while the SW hinges the entire bottom half of the trigger. The Glock trigger has some squishy takeup before it reaches a more-or-less defined wall, followed by the break after 5lbs or so (depending on connector and striker spring) of resistance. In contrast, the SW’s trigger is long and heavy, but with consistent resistance through the length of the pull, with no wall; it just breaks when the sear is pulled down away from the fully cocked striker. The Glock has a fairly short reset while the SW’s trigger needs to return nearly to the start of its travel again to reset. Comparing a Glock and an SW side by side will reveal that they are two completely different systems, with the SW being a much closer analog to a revolver’s DA trigger.

 

[d2wing]

I got one in trade years ago. It was a new one. At the time I saw a video on reducing trigger pull and did that as well as change some springs. After getting rid of the heavy double action trigger pull it was very accurate. I won a match with it. I can't remember what I did, LOL.

 

[MarshallDodge]

A gun friend of mine is always misplacing things. One day he was looking all over for a pistol. He finally found it, in his freezer.

I guess it is not a working freezer, just an old one that he uses for storage. Now, whenever he loses something I always say, check the freezer!

 

[mingo]

I purchased a sigma 40VE back in May 2009 with a Lazerlyte. I shoot it all the
time. I also have two M&P 40's that do have nicer triggers.
The Sigma was worth every dime, and I'll never get rid of it. Takes a while to
get use to shooting it. Mine is still all original parts.