(<<<<<------ Edited, this is incorrect , see below, sorry, innocent confused brain dead mistake.) Got a bag of Lot 3 Nukes in 124. 1000 ct of each at roughly 11 cents per, I've got plenty to work with. Going to put them through their paces. If anyone has a pet load they'd like to see worked-up with these, let me know. I've got most pistol powders and primers on hand and I'm willing to work them up and compare them to what will be my VihtaVuori loads. The 124s I'll load hot to run out of a couple of different carbines. I wanna see what happens to them above 1250. I've got gel ordered but it's backordered ... may start out with jugs. If these work-out and perform as Jake promises then these will be MAJOR money savers in the self defense PD line of 9mm projectiles we have to chose from these days. It's all about saving money while realizing maximum performance on all levels. Gotta love the new slogan that goes with these new designs. "Real Men Love Flowers" ... they say that is a typical expansion of both designs between 950-1250 in ballistic gel through the standardized various four layers. We shall see.