Low Charge Weight Velocity & Cycling Test
- Thread starter Walkalong
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LeonCarr
Member
I think those charges are way too light, and there is a good chance you might stick a slug inside the barrel, especially with jacketed bullets. I would start with the minimum load in the manual you are using.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
LeonCarr
Member
Ok, but I would take a mallet and a cleaning rod just in case 
.
Just my .02,
LeonCarr
.Just my .02,
LeonCarr
A guy on the other forum says you can just put a live round after a stuck bullet and just blow it out. He says most guys do this and never know they even had a stuck bullet. He says No Harm, No Foul. He says it doesn't even hurt the gun at all. Since I read it on the Internets, it must be true.
Careful, Walkalong. At a certain point, you just start annoying the bullets. At least you found a use for .451" copper plated SWC.
The Bushmaster
Member
Aah...Another "How low can you go" thread.
Waiting for the results with baited breath. [really]
I did it a bit different. Instead of varying the powder. I varied the seating depth.
Waiting for the results with baited breath. [really]
I did it a bit different. Instead of varying the powder. I varied the seating depth.
Hornady 200 Gr FMJ-CT and W-231 powder in a 5" all steel 1911.
4.5 Grs gave 665 FPS and cycled the gun.
4.0 Grs gave 601 FPS and cycled the gun.
3.5 Grs gave 520 FPS and cycled the gun.
3.0 Grs gave 417 FPS. The brass stayed in the gun and the hammer was down.
2.5 Grs gave 276 FPS. The brass stayed in the gun and the hammer was caught on the safety notch/1/4 cock/whatever.
2.0 Grs sounded like phsssssth, droppped around 10" at 5 yards and bounced off the top of the chrono. The reading was 1960 something. (Don't think so). The brass stayed in the gun and the hammer was down.
At 4.5 Grs the brass was fairly clean with no visable powder residue. As it got lower, it left powder residue, and sooted the case up more and more, until at 1.5 Grs the case was scorched and filthy with a fair amount of unburned powder..
I learned a couple of things.
1.) With an auto with no cylinder gap, you can get pretty dang slow and still exit the barrel, even with jacketed bullets. Quite a bit slower than possible with the revolvers I have shot with loads that gave very low velocities.
2.) Long before the low charge weight sticks a bullet in the barrel, a 1911 will stop cycling. To fire another round after a squib would take manually ejecting the empty brass/loading another round and firing it again.
Someone want to test this on a Glock, XD, Sig, etc, etc?
Now I need to clean a filthy barrel.
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***I just noticed that somehow or another I left off the 1.5 Gr Load..
1.5 Grs had barely any sound & stuck the bullet in the barrel with the base about 3/4" from the chamber.
I had brought an extra sized, primed, & belled case with me, plus 5.0 Grs of W-231. I used that to shoot out the stuck bullet.
4.5 Grs gave 665 FPS and cycled the gun.
4.0 Grs gave 601 FPS and cycled the gun.
3.5 Grs gave 520 FPS and cycled the gun.
3.0 Grs gave 417 FPS. The brass stayed in the gun and the hammer was down.
2.5 Grs gave 276 FPS. The brass stayed in the gun and the hammer was caught on the safety notch/1/4 cock/whatever.
2.0 Grs sounded like phsssssth, droppped around 10" at 5 yards and bounced off the top of the chrono. The reading was 1960 something. (Don't think so). The brass stayed in the gun and the hammer was down.
At 4.5 Grs the brass was fairly clean with no visable powder residue. As it got lower, it left powder residue, and sooted the case up more and more, until at 1.5 Grs the case was scorched and filthy with a fair amount of unburned powder..
I learned a couple of things.
1.) With an auto with no cylinder gap, you can get pretty dang slow and still exit the barrel, even with jacketed bullets. Quite a bit slower than possible with the revolvers I have shot with loads that gave very low velocities.
2.) Long before the low charge weight sticks a bullet in the barrel, a 1911 will stop cycling. To fire another round after a squib would take manually ejecting the empty brass/loading another round and firing it again.
Someone want to test this on a Glock, XD, Sig, etc, etc?
Now I need to clean a filthy barrel.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
***I just noticed that somehow or another I left off the 1.5 Gr Load..
1.5 Grs had barely any sound & stuck the bullet in the barrel with the base about 3/4" from the chamber.
I had brought an extra sized, primed, & belled case with me, plus 5.0 Grs of W-231. I used that to shoot out the stuck bullet.
Last edited:
Jesse Heywood
Member
I love experiments. Very informative. I didn't realize you could push a bullet through a barrel that slow.
But clearly you did something wrong. Weren't you supposed to blow up the gun, lose a hand and be blinded in one eye?
But clearly you did something wrong. Weren't you supposed to blow up the gun, lose a hand and be blinded in one eye?
MachIVshooter
Member
Shoot, a lot of old BP handgun rounds were slower than his first two. .32 Protector (think Chicago palm pistol) moved a 40 gr. LRN at a blistering 550 FPS. .320 Revolver, .380 revolver, .44 Bull Dog (450 FPS
), .45 Webley and a number of others were sub-600 FPS.Don't know of any that were as low as that 2.5 grain load, though.
Wilburt
Member
I did a similar test once. I loaded a .45 ACP, 200 gr. LSWC in a all steel 5" 1911 with only a primer as propellant 
Definitly didn't cycle the slide and stuck the bullet barley inside the bore. Luckily I wasn't at an IDPA match, b/c if I was shooting in a rush .
Very interesting test.
Definitly didn't cycle the slide and stuck the bullet barley inside the bore. Luckily I wasn't at an IDPA match, b/c if I was shooting in a rush . Very interesting test.
I was taken to task about this comment I posted in another thread. I wanted to test what I already knew about 1911's, which is that a round that sticks a bullet in the barrel (Squib) will not cycle the gun.
Only question now is will it cycle the action in a different auto. Anyone want to try this? I do not believe it would cycle the action in any .45 ACP, but it would be interesting to see.
The 3.5 Gr load that cycled the gun was like shooting a .22, if that. Kind of neat actually. A real popcorn fart kind of a load. I may do a test with Clays just for curiosities sake.
LiveLife
Member
Walkalong, you have boldly gone where few reloaders have gone before.
Very interesting test.
I could do a similar test on the Glock ...
Very interesting test.
I could do a similar test on the Glock ...
ljnowell
Member
Without testing for this specifically I can tell you that 3.4gr of 700x will push a 200gr plated HP 500 fps, but will not cycle the action on my G21. The brass will not eject. And it also dirtys the case badly. There is no way a squib round would cycle the action on my G21.
LiveLife
Member
Yes, this is precisely what Walkalong is trying to Verify.
I have experienced and seen primer only with no powder loads dislodged the bullets in the barrel but won't cycle the slide - you can't shoot another round unless you manually rack the slide (tap-rack-bang drill will fire another round behind the dislodged bullet).
When I experience "pop" with no felt recoil, I lock the slide back and examine the chamber/barrel for obstruction. I visually check by looking from the barrel end and see that the chamber is empty.
I think Walkalong's test is very interesting because I thought a very light charge may dislodge the bullet in the barrel too. Running this test will determine at what charge your pistol will barely push out the bullet out of the barrel. Looks like any amount of powder in the case will push the bullet out. When I run test on my Glocks, I will graduate the powder charges to see if I can make a bullet stick in the barrel with some powder in the case (Like 1.5, 1.0, 0.5 grain charges).
mongoose33
Member
A few thoughts:
1. Walkalong's results are specific to his gun; I'd be careful extrapolating the results to anyone else's. Different barrel, different bullet, different casemouth tension, all could lead to different results.
2. Early in my reloading career I had a couple squibs. I decided I needed to be able to understand explicitly what it felt like and what the results would be so I assembled just such a round: Case, primer, bullet, but no powder. I then shot it out of my gun.
As with Walkalong's experience, the bullet entered the barrel by a bit, and there it stuck. No cycle of the action (thank goodness it doesn't do that on mine, but I only shot the one with no other rounds in the mag).
It seemed a reasonable thing to do, something I suspect others might want to consider.
3. I hate seeing the joking about shooting another round to clear a squib stuck in the barrel. That kind of thing, it seems to me, can be misread, misunderstood, and then a misadventure will surely follow. Don't do it.
1. Walkalong's results are specific to his gun; I'd be careful extrapolating the results to anyone else's. Different barrel, different bullet, different casemouth tension, all could lead to different results.
2. Early in my reloading career I had a couple squibs. I decided I needed to be able to understand explicitly what it felt like and what the results would be so I assembled just such a round: Case, primer, bullet, but no powder. I then shot it out of my gun.
As with Walkalong's experience, the bullet entered the barrel by a bit, and there it stuck. No cycle of the action (thank goodness it doesn't do that on mine, but I only shot the one with no other rounds in the mag).
It seemed a reasonable thing to do, something I suspect others might want to consider.
3. I hate seeing the joking about shooting another round to clear a squib stuck in the barrel. That kind of thing, it seems to me, can be misread, misunderstood, and then a misadventure will surely follow. Don't do it.
Walkalong,
Nice tests and according to your results what happened to me 18 years ago should not have been possible. Unfortunately, now after reading your results I have no clue why it happened, I always thought it was a squib load that missed a powder charge. The gun was an all steel Springfield Armory 1911 that had been factory accurized. The load was supposed to have been 7.0 grs of Unique behind a 200 gr Speer hollow point with a CCI-300 primer. What happened was during a rapid fire sequence in a local shoot. My spotter grabbed my shoulder immediately after I had just fired cartridge number three, he said it didn't sound right. What we found was a bullet in the barrel about an inch from the end and a live round in the chamber. All this time I thought just the primer had drive the bullet down the barrel, but now I have no clue why I had a bullet stuck in the barrel and a live round in the chamber.
Nice tests and according to your results what happened to me 18 years ago should not have been possible. Unfortunately, now after reading your results I have no clue why it happened, I always thought it was a squib load that missed a powder charge. The gun was an all steel Springfield Armory 1911 that had been factory accurized. The load was supposed to have been 7.0 grs of Unique behind a 200 gr Speer hollow point with a CCI-300 primer. What happened was during a rapid fire sequence in a local shoot. My spotter grabbed my shoulder immediately after I had just fired cartridge number three, he said it didn't sound right. What we found was a bullet in the barrel about an inch from the end and a live round in the chamber. All this time I thought just the primer had drive the bullet down the barrel, but now I have no clue why I had a bullet stuck in the barrel and a live round in the chamber.
LiveLife
Member
Most of us have experienced that primer and no powder will push the bullet into the barrel and not cycle the slide. What Walkalong is experimenting and I am also curious about is how much powder will push the bullet into the barrel AND still cycle the slide to pick up another round from the magazine.
My guess is that a very small powder charge may stick the bullet in the barrel and cycle the slide partially, but enough to strip another live round into the chamber (ending up with bullet in barrel/live round in chamber). I am planning to go back to the range Friday and Saturday to repeat the test in Glock pistols. I will be taking a 1/4 inch drive long extension, pliers and small block of wood (2x4) which I have used successfully to tap out stuck bullets in the barrels from squib rounds in case I do end up with bullets in the barrel.
BTW Walkalong, I picked up a pound of Green Dot finally to do another load/range test comparison with W231/HP38.
If the round does not have enough energy to push the bullet from the barrel, I just can't see it cycling the gun. I would love to see other tests in other guns, but I just can't see it happening. There has to be "X" amount of energy to cycle the slide, and that amount is enough to get the bullet out of the barrel, at least it seems.
Clark
Member
I have done similar experiments with semi auto pistols.
The cases should land 5 feet from the shooter.
Here are a couple of my posts on the subject:
How far do cases fly math 1999
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/msg/16a9c9cfe1c4e6d0?hl=en
Limp wristing math 2003
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/msg/cc556962794e57bd?hl=en
The cases should land 5 feet from the shooter.
Here are a couple of my posts on the subject:
How far do cases fly math 1999
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/msg/16a9c9cfe1c4e6d0?hl=en
Limp wristing math 2003
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.guns/msg/cc556962794e57bd?hl=en
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