luger questions

[silicosys4]

lgs has a 9mm dwm luger for sale, first time I've seen a luger for under a grand for a long time. I don't know what I'm looking at though. Its listed as a commercial luger, and I'm drawing a blank with my research in narrowing down exactly what it is. Here's what I know

1. Dwm marked toggle
2. No chamber mark
3. Listed as 9mm
4. Aluminum base mag, serialed at some point to the gun
5. Listed as commercial luger, early 20's
6. Crown over N, above "germany" stamp on left side frame

 

[bersaguy]

I'd take a look at some of Ian's videos from forgotten weapons on the Luger. He has a ton of them, and each one has good info on identifying authentic Lugers, what is normal, and what is not.https://www.google.com/search?clien...8ccDKAJ6BAgJEAc&biw=412&bih=832&dpr=2.63#ip=1

 

[Waveski]

It appears to be at least mostly matching. The grips do not show the common "million dollar chip".
It looks like a good condition shooter. I've seen ugly mixmasters go for $750. If you desire to have a good looking shooter grade Luger , give that one a serious look. As the seller about function - and whether or not he will guarantee that. Check that the toggle locks back on an empty magazine.

Odd and blocky though that toggle looks when sighting , the Luger is a very nice shooter. The precision machining has to be seen to be appreciated.

 

[Patocazador]

The magazine is an "o" and the gun is an "n" so it's not matching. You didn't show the top so it's hard to tell if it's a commercial or not.

The Wehrmacht guns were all .30 caliber instead of 9mm except for those used by the police. The police guns usually had a double date above the chamber. An exported commercial gun will have "Germany" stamped somewhere on it.

Depending on the condition of the bore it is well-worth any price under $1000.

If I found it at my LGS, I would not leave without it.

 

[Monac]

I am not a Luger expert. Life is too short. But I don't think there were any commercial 9mm Lugers made in the early 1920's, because the Versailles Treaty prohibited the Germans from making them at that time. They could only make 7.65mm Lugers. The small German Army of the time (the "Reichswehr") still had 9mm Lugers, but they were either wartime guns or were made by a small company named Simson, not DWM. That would suggest to me that this gun was rebarreled, or that it was reworked in the1920's, not actually made then.

(As I understand it, replacing the barrel is all that is needed to convert a 9mm Luger to 7.65mm or vice versa.)

This is a specialized area, so I might easily be wrong about a whole lot of things. But I think I read that when the Dutch Army in the East Indies (now Indonesia) wanted more 9mm Lugers in the 1920's, the result was a complicated deal where DWM or Mauser made the guns except for the barrels. Vickers in England made the barrels and put them on the pistols, and everyone pretended that Vickers made the complete guns. That way there was no problem with the treaty.

PS - I think Ian of the "Forgotten Weapons" channel on Youtube just did a video on Simson Lugers, or Lugers with dates from the 1920's.

 

[unspellable]

As well as swapping barrels, the 7.65 and the 9 mm used different recoil springs. Both springs are shown on the original DWM new model drawings. (New models have coiled recoil springs, the old model had a flat recoil spring.) Prior to WWII, the 7.65 was more popular in the USA than the 9 mm, in part due to the Versailles treaty.
I have seen double date Lugers with no police markings, presumably for the military. Also sans the police safety device or the holes for it.
The 1920 commercials were made by DWM from left over military parts. There was also a cottage industry whence most of the mismatchs and 1920s era 9 mm luger came from.

 

[Patocazador]

Go to http://forum.lugerforum.com/index.php and register. Then post photos of your gun. You will get the straight poop on it.

 

[HisSoldier]

I bought one of trhge 1920 refurbs in about that condition not long ago for $1200 and felt like the owner must have been desperate for cash.
If I came upon this deal it would already be mine.

 

[PzGren]

[QUOTE="Monac, post: 11914931, member: 219568"... the result was a complicated deal where DWM or Mauser made the guns except for the barrels. Vickers in England made the barrels and put them on the pistols, and everyone pretended that Vickers made the complete guns. That way there was no problem with the treaty.

....[/QUOTE]

DWM was owned by the Loewe family, the director Ludwig Loewe was born Louis Levin was a German philantropist. The Loewes also owned Mauser and had set up the FN factory when Belgium wanted to use Belgian made Mauser rifles. One of the Loewe brothers was also on the board of directors of Vickers and that surely made the deal easier.

For under $1,000 the above Parabellum appears to be a very good purchase.

 

[Gordon]

One of those 1920 Commercials in 7.65 is by far my favorite shooting Luger and I have owned half a dozen German Martial and Swiss Lugers in the past. Fiocchi and S&B and others make 7.65 Parabellum ammo which is reloadable. I cast 93 grain Bullets for mine and shoot them at 1050 out of the 3.5" barrel like shelling peanuts into 1" 15 yard groups. The are very reliable with Mecgar Magazines !

 

[Monac]

One of those 1920 Commercials in 7.65 is by far my favorite shooting Luger and I have owned half a dozen German Martial and Swiss Lugers in the past. Fiocchi and S&B and others make 7.65 Parabellum ammo which is reloadable. I cast 93 grain Bullets for mine and shoot them at 1050 out of the 3.5" barrel like shelling peanuts into 1" 15 yard groups. The are very reliable with Mecgar Magazines !

Thanks for comment about the Mec-Gar magazines, Gordon. I have an East German re-work 9mm Luger that is a good shooter, and I'd like to have another magazine for it. I can't find any East German ones, and prices on wartime and pre-war Luger mags are very high priced.

 

[Gordon]

The Mecgars work for 9 mm or 7.65 and IMHO they are better than anything ever made.

 

[czhen]

Gordon is correct about Mecgars mags, in my case the 9 mm worked fine in a 7.65.

 

[Gordon]

Thanks for comment about the Mec-Gar magazines, Gordon. I have an East German re-work 9mm Luger that is a good shooter, and I'd like to have another magazine for it. I can't find any East German ones, and prices on wartime and pre-war Luger mags are very high priced.

The usual big outlets seem sold out with months back order on the Luger Mecgar mags. I found these for a very good price on Gunbroker ready to go . I have 4 already.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/893921222

 

[Patocazador]

I bought my Mec-Gar magazines from Optics Planet but now they have back orders for 10-12 months.

 

[czhen]

Get cdnn a call.

 

[vintovka]

Lugers are bringing record amounts. That amount is increasing daily. If that one is under $1000 right now There would be nothing keeping me from buying it.