M&P shield 9 plus vs M&P 2.0 9mm

[375HH weirdo]

I own with the m&p 2.0 fullsize and the m&p shield 9 plus. Why in the holy flig spliggiddy does a 3.1" barrel print more accurately than a 4.22"?

This drives me nuts. I should be getting better groups with the fullsize. Any thoughts? Both were shot with the same rounds. Grinds my gears, I'll tell you.

 

[LiveLife]

m&p 2.0 fullsize and the m&p shield 9 plus. Why in the holy flig spliggiddy does a 3.1" barrel print more accurately than a 4.22"?

Any thoughts?

Yes.

Clear the pistols and dry fire with your EYES CLOSED and have someone watch the front sight/muzzle from safe location. Now, dry fire like you shot at the range instead of being focused on trigger. (You could do this at the range with live fire also)

If M&P 2.0 moves front sight/muzzle more than M&P Shield, you have your answer.

And if you are moving both pistols' front sights/muzzles, you could be adding input to grip with your shooting/support hands/fingers. Check this thread to improve your trigger control - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/post-11320782

Check this post to improve your grip to isolate trigger finger - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/page-2#post-11245649

 

[InTheSwamp]

Check this post to improve your grip to isolate trigger finger - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/trigger-control.834737/page-2#post-11245649

Yes! Check on your grip.

 

[twofewscrews]

I own with the m&p 2.0 fullsize and the m&p shield 9 plus. Why in the holy flig spliggiddy does a 3.1" barrel print more accurately than a 4.22"?

This drives me nuts. I should be getting better groups with the fullsize. Any thoughts? Both were shot with the same rounds. Grinds my gears, I'll tell you.

Not all barrels are created equal, which goes double for mass produced barrels. Two barrels, produced in sequence, can have radically different tastes in ammunition and differences in accuracy.

I know this holds true with rifles. I assume it also holds true with pistols but you know what they say about assumptions . . .

 

[375HH weirdo]

Not all barrels are created equal, which goes double for mass produced barrels. Two barrels, produced in sequence, can have radically different tastes in ammunition and differences in accuracy.

I know this holds true with rifles. I assume it also holds true with pistols but you know what they say about assumptions . . .

First off thanks for all the helpful information frome everyone.

I use a push/pull grip but don't do well point shooting being left eye dominant but right handed. I am consistently accurate out to 20-30 yards with my revolvers, glocks, 1911s, and the shield plus. It's just the fullsize that shoots rather crappy.

I have often wondered if I just haven't found a good barrel/bullet combo. Unlike match shooters buying multiple pistols to find one good shooter isn't an option due to being an average blue collar worker without a ton of money. I don't know if I should try buying a different barrel or what.

 

[mingo]

The full size M&P should have 3 palm swell options. I would switch to
a different size, or better fit and feel. It might make quite a difference.

 

[gc70]

I own with the m&p 2.0 fullsize and the m&p shield 9 plus. Why in the holy flig spliggiddy does a 3.1" barrel print more accurately than a 4.22"?

This drives me nuts. I should be getting better groups with the fullsize. Any thoughts? Both were shot with the same rounds. Grinds my gears, I'll tell you.

An incredible variety of factors -definitely not limited to barrel length- can result in different accuracy with different guns.

Over 25 years I owned four Beretta 92-series guns, all with the same barrel length, with two made in Italy and two made in America. I could shoot two of the guns really well and the other two were a challenge to hit a barn from the inside.

I ultimately discovered the two guns I shot well had "radiused backstraps" (left in below photo) which very slightly reduced the reach from the backstrap to trigger and the guns I shot poorly had non-radiused backstraps (right in photo). Honestly, it does not seem the difference in the backstraps or trigger reach in the guns would make much difference, but it certainly did for my accuracy. My son could shoot all four guns with similar accuracy.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I own with the m&p 2.0 fullsize

I am consistently accurate out to 20-30 yards with my revolvers, glocks, 1911s, and the shield plus. It's just the fullsize that shoots rather crappy.

My usual suggestion is Trigger Management. But since you're not having the same issues with other platforms, that might not be it.

When you say "consistently accurate" out to 20-30 yards, how small are the groups we're talking about?
My Apex Grade barreled M&P9 will hold inside 2" at 25 yards

S&W M&P9 models had a reputation of not being as accurate due to the timing of unlocking being optimized for the .40 cartridge, but I thought they had addressed that by the time they introduced the 2.0 versions. Mine had lack luster accuracy out anywhere beyond 15 yards until I installed Apex Tactical 's Apex Grade barrel. Before you go to that expense, you might try different weight bullets

I use a push/pull grip but don't do well point shooting being left eye dominant but right handed.

Are you dropping your support hand to hold/pull the gun back from muzzle flip?
Are your elbows locked out?
Are you bringing your dominate eye to the sights or the sights to your eye?
Are you closing your non-dominate eye?[/QUOTE]

 

[375HH weirdo]

My usual suggestion is Trigger Management. But since you're not having the same issues with other platforms, that might not be it.

When you say "consistently accurate" out to 20-30 yards, how small are the groups we're talking about?
My Apex Grade barreled M&P9 will hold inside 2" at 25 yards

S&W M&P9 models had a reputation of not being as accurate due to the timing of unlocking being optimized for the .40 cartridge, but I thought they had addressed that by the time they introduced the 2.0 versions. Mine had lack luster accuracy out anywhere beyond 15 yards until I installed Apex Tactical 's Apex Grade barrel. Before you go to that expense, you might try different weight bullets


Are you dropping your support hand to hold/pull the gun back from muzzle flip?
Are your elbows locked out?
Are you bringing your dominate eye to the sights or the sights to your eye?
Are you closing your non-dominate eye?

[/QUOTE]
I would like 2‐3 inch groups at 25 yards.

 

[375HH weirdo]

Are you dropping your support hand to hold/pull the gun back from muzzle flip?
Are your elbows locked out?
Are you bringing your dominate eye to the sights or the sights to your eye?
Are you closing your non-dominate eye?

[/QUOTE]
1. No, i am not, should I be?
2. I leave my elbows bent since I cannot fully straighten or lock them out.
3. I shoot lefty and bring the sights to my eye, not the other way around. That's what I was taught, is that incorrect?
4. No, I shoot with both eyes open even with optics as situational awareness is important

 

[LiveLife]

I would like 2‐3 inch groups at 25 yards.

Are you getting 2-3 inch groups with other pistols you own except for full size M&P 2.0?

If so, it could be the pistol.

 

[9mmepiphany]

1. No, i am not, should I be?

No, please don't. It is part of an less than optimal technique which still haunts us

2. I leave my elbows bent since I cannot fully straighten or lock them out.

Bent it fine. The only advantage of locking them out is to transmit recoil to your shoulders

3. I shoot lefty and bring the sights to my eye, not the other way around. That's what I was taught, is that incorrect?

That is one of several techniques available, nothing wrong with it if shooting lefty works for you..

An interesting side note: Robby Leathem is a lefty but there weren't many accommodations (equipment) for southpaws when he go into shooting...so he learned to shoot right-handed. It gives him a huge advantage during "weak/support hand" stages at matches

4. No, I shoot with both eyes open even with optics as situational awareness is important

I only mention it as something to consider eliminating as a variable while trying to diagnose the issue you're having

Have you had another shooter try your guns to see if they experience the same results?

 

[Jim Watson]

I have heard more than one Glocker favor the short 26 over 19 or 17.
Lots of variables.

 

[Mike J]

I might be completely wrong, but I suspect for one reason or another the Shield plus fits your grip better. I agree with mingo's suggestion above. You might try the different size backstraps. It might make a difference. If it doesn't you aren't out much but if it does it would solve your problem.

 

[MrBorland]

I would like 2‐3 inch groups at 25 yards

That’s a tall order for striker-fired pistols, and likely unrealistic with the Shield.

IMO, a “good” shooter can shoot constant 3”@25, but that’s with a service-sized handgun that’s up to the task. I’ve done it with my full-sized M&P, but that was with hand loads, and even then, it wouldn’t have been my first choice.

As far as the push/pull stance, I’m not a fan. Too many unnecessary inputs on the gun, all of which have to be applied consistently. IMO, an isosceles stance with a neutral grip is far better.

 

[375HH weirdo]

Are you getting 2-3 inch groups with other pistols you own except for full size M&P 2.0?

If so, it could be the pistol.

Yes, all my wheel guns except the 642, the 1911s both FS and commander, and my glock is an absolute tack driver out to 40 yards, where if i do my job, 3 inches is very possible.

 

[375HH weirdo]

I might be completely wrong, but I suspect for one reason or another the Shield plus fits your grip better. I agree with mingo's suggestion above. You might try the different size backstraps. It might make a difference. If it doesn't you aren't out much but if it does it would solve your problem.

It just seems odd. I wear a 2x-3x glove or size 12 in ppe gloves. I don't have small hands and yet the smaller gun rocks better with any load I put through it. I mainly handload but sometimes shot factory ball ammo.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

The M&P is not known as an accurate platform. I bought a brand new Performance Center 5in competitor when they came out, probably 2 years ago now. It was a complete dog.
Apex barrels are made for good reason.

 

[bnolsen]

For me the shield has always felt superior in hand and quality to the standard m&p series.

 

[LiveLife]

Are you getting 2-3 inch groups with other pistols you own except for full size M&P 2.0?

If so, it could be the pistol.

Yes, all my wheel guns except the 642, the 1911s both FS and commander, and my glock is an absolute tack driver out to 40 yards, where if i do my job, 3 inches is very possible.

OK, then we can suspect the pistol.

S&W had issues with 9mm M&P accuracy and tried different slower barrel twist rates (1:18, 1:24) before settling down with current 1:10 - https://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/292369-barrel-twist-rates-print.html

If your fullsize M&P has slower twist rate, it could explain why shorter Shield barrel with faster 1:10 twist rate shoots more accurate. You could contact S&W customer service to verify your barrel twist rate (1:10 barrels have a dot on bottom side) and switch to faster 1:10 barrel.

That’s a tall order for striker-fired pistols, and likely unrealistic with the Shield.

IMO, a “good” shooter can shoot constant 3”@25, but that’s with a service-sized handgun that’s up to the task.

Talk to enough match shooters who use striker-fired pistols and you will get a different story.

While I agree that "out of the box" striker trigger could be gritty and vague that moves/jerks front sight when dry fired, especially for heavier M&P triggers, once broken-in and smoothed out to where dry firing won't move the front sight, 3" @ 25 yards is very doable.

Before I buy any pistol, I dry fire while watching the front sight and will buy the one that doesn't move the front sight or minimally to get a more accurate shooting pistol out of the box that will shoot even more accurate as trigger parts break-in and smooth out. (I get puzzled look from other shooters with same Glock/M&P pistols as their pistols won't shoot as accurate and I explain why )

Exception was buying Shield 9mm that was not in stock locally so I had to order online. When I dry fired, trigger was gritty and jerky and move the front sight. I dry fired like around 2000 times until trigger smoothed out to not move/jerk the front sight and group size reduced. Other shooters with Shield 9mm was surprised and I explained new 10/22 factory trigger is around 7.5 lbs and after 3500 rounds, it reduced to 4.5 lbs and smoothed out so I told them to keep dry firing until front sight didn't move - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...rimfire-silhouette-rifle.937915/post-13083234

Even factory stock Glock 22 can produce sub 2"-3" groups at 25 yards - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/i-may-actually-buy-a-glock.915477/page-4#post-12556711

These are from my Gen3 Glock 22 (factory trigger well broken in) load development with Alliant BE-86 - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/40-s-w-powder.851647/page-3#post-11150251

I met THR member @Dudedog at the range to witness following group - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/40-s-w-powder.851647/page-3#post-11150251

And here's a list of factory stock striker fired pistols that can do sub 3" at 25 yards - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...concepts-and-discussions.778197/post-10940688

Lipsey's Vickers Tactical Glock 17 (25 yards) 1.00" to 1.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/23/tested-lipsey-s-vickers-tactical-glock-17/

Sig P320 X-Five/VTAC (25 yards) 1.14" to 1.97" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/8/10/tested-sig-sauer-p320-x-series-pistols/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 Compact (25 yards) 1.22" to 3.64" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/11/30/tested-smith-wesson-mp9-m20-compact-pistol/

S&W M&P9 M2.0 (25 yards) 1.33" to 2.36" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/5/22/tested-smith-wessons-mp-m20-pistol/

Springfield XDM 4.5" OSP (25 yards) 2.46" to 2.80" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2017/3/21/tested-springfield-xdm-45-osp-9-mm-pistol/

Ruger American (25 yards) 2.48" to 2.89" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/12/29/tested-ruger-american-pistol/

Walther PPQ M2 Q4 Tac (25 yards) 2.53" to 2.76" - https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2018/1/19/tested-walther-ppq-m2-q4-tac-9-mm-pistol/

More pistol reviews and 25 yard groups at link.

 

[someguy2800]

Some pistols just don't agree with you. If the Shield trigger works better for you than the M&P then maybe you would be better served selling the M&P and adding a shield plus 4" to take its place. I've had the 3" and 4" shield plus and neither of them really worked for me, but there is an ass for every seat.

 

[danez71]

OK, then we can suspect the pistol.

S&W had issues with 9mm M&P accuracy and tried different slower barrel twist rates (1:18, 1:24) before settling down with current 1:10 - https://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/292369-barrel-twist-rates-print.html

If your fullsize M&P has slower twist rate, it could explain why shorter Shield barrel with faster 1:10 twist rate shoots more accurate. You could contact S&W customer service to verify your barrel twist rate (1:10 barrels have a dot on bottom side) and switch to faster 1:10 barrel.


<snip>

All true & good info that applies to early 1st gens

The OP has a 2.0

 

[LiveLife]

All true & good info that applies to early 1st genswas

The OP has a 2.0

Thank you and I am aware that OP has M&P 2.0.

Inaccuracy issue with M&P 9mm has come up several times in the past and after "root cause analysis" was done, often it was due to heavy/trigger moving front sight/muzzle and/or barrel/twist rate that needed replacement (With another issue of shooter adding input to grip). This is a well known issue.

So I was helping with "root cause analysis" starting with trigger input moving the front sight/muzzle:

Clear the pistols and dry fire with your EYES CLOSED and have someone watch the front sight/muzzle from safe location. Now, dry fire like you shot at the range instead of being focused on trigger. (You could do this at the range with live fire also)

If M&P 2.0 moves front sight/muzzle more than M&P Shield, you have your answer.

OP posted that other pistols were producing 2-3" groups at 25 yards except for M&P 2.0 so I refocused on "root cause" to be the pistol and to have the barrel twist rate verified with S&W customer service (I don't know the history of OP's M&P 2.0 and who knows, barrel could have even been changed out after pistol left the factory.)

I would like 2‐3 inch groups at 25 yards.

Are you getting 2-3 inch groups with other pistols you own except for full size M&P 2.0?

If so, it could be the pistol.

Yes, all my ... guns ... 1911s ... glock is an absolute tack driver out to 40 yards

So ruling out shooter input/trigger as cause of accuracy issue (It could still be M&P 2.0 trigger but I am trusting the OP that trigger is not moving the front sight/muzzle), I posted to have OP contact S&W customer service to verify twist rate of barrel in case it was replaced with slower twist rate barrel as replacement faster twist rate 1:10 barrel has a dot on the bottom of barrel near barrel lug.

OK, then we can suspect the pistol.

S&W had issues with 9mm M&P accuracy and tried different slower barrel twist rates (1:18, 1:24) before settling down with current 1:10 ... If your fullsize M&P has slower twist rate, it could explain why shorter Shield barrel with faster 1:10 twist rate shoots more accurate. You could contact S&W customer service to verify your barrel twist rate (1:10 barrels have a dot on bottom side) and switch to faster 1:10 barrel.

If OP indeed has slower twist rate barrel, S&W customer service could help with replacement with faster 1:10 barrel. If OP has faster 1:10 twist rate barrel, OP and customer/technical service can work to identify the inaccuracy issue ... Perhaps barrel replacement if that's the cause. (OP could reference this thread with customer service)

I have helped several THR members resolve their accuracy issues with different brands of pistols. One member who wanted to shoot matches had accuracy issue with a new pistol getting 4"-5"+ groups at 25 yards when he was capable of shooting 2"-3" groups at 25 yards. After some troubleshooting PMs back and forth and several long phone calls, I deemed it was pistol barrel and had member contact customer service. He was referred to Technical department and technician also deemed the cause of accuracy issue to barrel and sent member a new barrel that produced 2"-3" groups at 25 yards.

Have you had another shooter try your guns to see if they experience the same results?

Good suggestion.

Although OP is capable of 2"-3" groups with other pistols, if other shooters reproduce the accuracy issue, then we can confirm it's the pistol and not the shooter. Only issue is other shooters must be capable of shooting 2"-3" groups as if they are lousy shooters, they would produce lousy groups with any pistol, including OP's M&P 2.0.

 

[Walkalong]

An incredible variety of factors -definitely not limited to barrel length- can result in different accuracy with different guns.

This.....

 

[sevt_chevelle]

The accuracy issues with the M&P are not trigger and twist rate related. It's the barrel timing.