M1 Garand - Its First Trip to the Range

dredd

dredd

Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Messages
946
Location
DFW - Texas
I was finally able to break free and get to the range on Saturday.

I love the rifle and it shot great.

I need to get "smoother" with my loading technique.
I keep my palm where it belongs to prevent eating my thumb, but I'm definitely not as fast and slick as the folks in the videos. LOL

Now for the fun!!!!

Things that people were kind enough to teach me while at the Range on Saturday.

1) I was informed that I needed a good First Aid Kit handy for doctoring my thumb, because it would be a common problem for me if I actually planned on shooting the rifle much.

2) Be sure to only shoot M2 Ball Ammo or I'd break / ruin the rifle. Possibly even blow it up.

3) Reason I was given for said person not wanting one. Neat rifle, but too difficult to clean.

4) I got to hear the "Ping" stories about the bad guys knowing when to rush in and kill you and how we would trick them with a fake Ping to kill them.

All of the folks were enjoyable to be around.
I just smiled, nodded and thanked them for their help.

It was a great day to play with some of my toys.

I made Saturday "M1 Day"
The outing consisted of:
M1 Garand
M1 30 Carbine
M1A Standard
M1A Socom 16
 
My Garand was plenty accurate, and fun to shoot. Just became a reloader's nightmare chasing brass at public ranges, and half the brass that I did find was damaged by the charging handle. It now has a better home, but I have been told many times that I am welcome to shoot it any time I like. The only time I got "Garand thumb" is when I was showing my boys what NOT to do to avoid it... 😔
 
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Been shooting Garands for 15 or so years now. Never had Garand thumb. I have 9 Garands in my safe ranging from CMP Rack to Service special grades. None of them send the bolt home on a new clip without some "help".

They do ding up the brass a bit, but it still reloads fine.

Glad you finally got yours to the range. Enjoy it. Check out the CMP forums for good advice. Guys are the range are all "experts" that see to have never actually owned a Garand in my experience.
 
dredd said:
2) Be sure to only shoot M2 Ball Ammo or I'd break / ruin the rifle. Possibly even blow it up.
Click to expand...
This is one of the oldest myths out there. If your M-1 is in good repair, you can shoot any Factory loaded ammunition in it.
dredd said:
I got to hear the "Ping" stories about the bad guys knowing when to rush in and kill you and how we would trick them with a fake Ping to kill them.
Click to expand...
Another myth. In the heat of battle, no one hears the " ping "

And exactly HOW would you fake a "ping?"

Glad you enjoyed your M-1 experience, but be aware that they are a lot of myths and falsehoods surrounding this legendary rifle.
 
Thanks for all of the replies.

I about "internetted" (made that up) myself blind reading up on and researching the Garand.

I was prepared for what I was going to hear at the range or on various forms. LOL
 
dredd said:
Now for the fun!!!!

Things that people were kind enough to teach me while at the Range on Saturday.

1) I was informed that I needed a good First Aid Kit handy for doctoring my thumb, because it would be a common problem for me if I actually planned on shooting the rifle much.
Click to expand...
Using the heal of my thumb to push the clip into the ammo well I have never gotten my thumb caught either.

dredd said:
2) Be sure to only shoot M2 Ball Ammo or I'd break / ruin the rifle. Possibly even blow it up.
Click to expand...
I have shot every thing from M2 ball, black tips and orange tips as well as commercial hunting ammo through my Garand and it has never been a problem. I did put a complete spring kit in the gun when I bought it 35 years ago though.

dredd said:
3) Reason I was given for said person not wanting one. Neat rifle, but too difficult to clean.
Click to expand...

The Garand is simple to disassemble compared to an SVT40. But a bit more complex than an AG42 Ljungman. I have had my thumb bitten by my Ljungman though.

dredd said:
4) I got to hear the "Ping" stories about the bad guys knowing when to rush in and kill you and how we would trick them with a fake Ping to kill them.
Click to expand...
I think I would learn to take a shot while simultaneously tossing an empty Garand clip against a rock then wait for the krauts come out and poke holes in them with the 7 remaining rounds in the rifle.


Isn't is great having a range full of knowledgeable experts to teach you a bunch of garbage? LOL!
 
First , they certainly are a conversation piece.
Second , the clips are like speed loaders. Practice makes perfict.
Third, if your a handloader and have a good gas system you can load down till poor function. Then back up a gr.
That softens the blow on your brass and still kills paper dead
Fourth , a 5 shot clip gives good entertainment with a little less ammo.
Fifth, a creative mounted umbrella on your table stops brass.
Happy Monday
 
Congrats on the new rifle.

Google this: Dents on my cases. And, my cases eject too far.

On my M1 and M1A, the oprod bump was doing it.
The cuts on the sides of my M1a cases were brutal.
Try a little electrician tape on that op rod bump. Or where you see brass smearing off the cases where they hit.
May soften the blow to your brass.

Many people lighten up the ejector spring in their bolt so the brass doesn't fling so fast or far. Buy a few spare springs so you can experiment.
 
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We are still killing Germans with fake pings from a war that has been over for 80 years; “my war” (when I served), has been over for more than 50 years and some are still stuck in the jungle. Fellows, those wars are long over - you are home now - let it go and move on!
 
Show Me said:
Third, if your a handloader and have a good gas system you can load down till poor function. Then back up a gr. That softens the blow on your brass and still kills paper dead
Click to expand...

This is good advice.

I will also say that if you handload and cast, you should become familiar with the "BobS Load"

200-210 grain gas checked bullet (Lyman 311284, 311299, Lee 309-200, etc)
Large Rifle Primer
42 grains H4831 or 4350
Bit of filler (originally spec'd was a 1/4 sheet pink toilet paper, but some dacron pillow fill is standard for me)
Seat to crimp groove

Lots o guys where are cringing. Heavy for caliber bullets, slow powder, does sqlbullet hate M1 garands in general does he just love bent op-rods.

Cast bullets are different. And this load delivers the right gas pressure to the port and results in a very soft shooting, reliable cycling, cheap load. This is about all that I shoot through mine.
 
tark said:
This is one of the oldest myths out there. If your M-1 is in good repair, you can shoot any Factory loaded ammunition in it.

Another myth. In the heat of battle, no one hears the " ping "

And exactly HOW would you fake a "ping?"

Glad you enjoyed your M-1 experience, but be aware that they are a lot of myths and falsehoods surrounding this legendary rifle.
Click to expand...
Exactly. In a one on one duel perhaps you'd hear the ping but likely not from dozens if not hundreds of yards away. Besides your buddies nearby will certainly have some loaded rifles.
 
sqlbullet said:
This is good advice.

I will also say that if you handload and cast, you should become familiar with the "BobS Load"

200-210 grain gas checked bullet (Lyman 311284, 311299, Lee 309-200, etc)
Large Rifle Primer
42 grains H4831 or 4350
Bit of filler (originally spec'd was a 1/4 sheet pink toilet paper, but some dacron pillow fill is standard for me)
Seat to crimp groove

Lots o guys where are cringing. Heavy for caliber bullets, slow powder, does sqlbullet hate M1 garands in general does he just love bent op-rods.

Cast bullets are different. And this load delivers the right gas pressure to the port and results in a very soft shooting, reliable cycling, cheap load. This is about all that I shoot through mine.
Click to expand...
My load is 36.5-38.0 gr of H4895 or equivalent (4064, Varget, SW-, Match rifle, SW-Precision Rifle, ect. Under the Lee 200gr RNGC. Hits to POI/POA at 50yds with battle sight settings. Very smooth operation and accurate.
 
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Great discussion

I had one-- Springfield or Winchester, can't remember--back in 1962-3.

I sold it to buy back my high number 1903.
 
dredd said:
I need to get "smoother" with my loading technique.
I keep my palm where it belongs to prevent eating my thumb
Click to expand...
Grip the loaded en bloc clip between thumb and palm, bullets on the thumb side. Your fingers ought be longer than the clip. Bring your hand in over the open action, so that your pinky takes up against the op rod handle. Flare the thumb out, and use the web of the thumb to press the clip in. As needed you can ease the op rod back a smidge as you push the clip home smartly. It wants a stout push, probably more than most are inclined to give.

dredd said:
I got to hear the "Ping" stories about the bad guys knowing when to rush in and kill you and how we would trick them with a fake Ping to kill them.
Click to expand...
Mostly told by people with little or no understanding of how a Rifle Squad of 8-13 troops never all "run out of ammo" at the same time. Nor of the pesky issue of that Squad often having an Automatic Gunner looking for Targets of Opportunity, like a sneaky bunch of Bad Guys tryin' to bayonet some puir GI who is slow on the reload.
 
Pat Riot said:
Ammo recommendations for your Garand by the CMP
Screenshot of the WARNING on their main page.
View attachment 1260814

thecmp.org

Rifle Sales - Civilian Marksmanship Program

CMP rifles are able to be purchased within our stores in Alabama and Ohio as well as through mail. Learn about all of our available firearms.
thecmp.org thecmp.org
Click to expand...
The CMP is just covering their butt. Just like every firearms manufacturer says not to fire reloaded ammo. Use factory loaded ammo only. I don't believe any 06 factory loads exceed 50,000 PSI.

I may be wrong...
 
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tark said:
The CMP is just covering their butt. Just like every firearms manufacturer says not to fire reloaded ammo. Use factory loaded ammo only. I don't believe and factory loads exceed 50,000 PSI.

I may be wrong...
Click to expand...
I just load my ammo to Service Rifle specs to be on the safe side.
 
CUP != PSI but they are often treated as if they are. Sorry to call out your post tark but it illustrates perfectly the confusion. Adding to the confusion is that with IMR4895, the standard powder for M2 ball and M2 AP, CUP and PSI are the same for their relative bullet weights at their relative velocities (150gr @ 2805 fps and 168 gr @2715 fps). This intersection is a coincidence not an indication of an equivalence or even a conversion factor.

Worse there is no "conversion" since CUP reflects the work done during the firing cycle where PSI represents the highest pressure during the cycle. The fact that M2 ball has the same for both is coincidence, not a conversion validation. Please note that M59 and M80 7.62X51 also are a 50000 CUP round with 150 grain projectiles. It has to be since it duplicates the M2 ball velocities. Same work done: Accelerate 150 (ish) grains to 2805 (2809) fps. But the peak pressure with M59 and M80 is and must be higher due to the smaller initial case capacity - gotta make up the area under the curve somewhere.

Worse still CUP is often referred to as PSI copper crusher especially in older documentation, even though CUP is not PSI and is it's own standard. This is especially true of US Military TM's that during the 50's and 60's used CUP and PSI as interchangeable units.

Worse, worse still CUP stands for Copper Units Pressure but it actually is measuring the work done from breech to muzzle, not the pressure at any point. IMHO it should be CUW. It's like the difference between horsepower and torque.

Regarding factory ammo: SAAMI spec for 30-06 Springfield is 60,000 PSI. That is well above M2 Ball from 1938. But, M1 AP which was in production up to 1939 used a 173 grain bullet at 3180 fps. I can find no reloading data for any powder that would allow a 173 grain bullet over 2900 fps and stay in SAAMI pressure spect. Maybe the army had some special powder but it is more likley that M1 AP was 62K-63K PSI round. And I bet lots of it was shot out of M1 Garands but I wasn't there.

M1 ball and M1 AP were both discontinued due to safety concerns, but the concerns were regarding the rifle ranges and maximum range of that ammo. The velocity was derated and the boat tail was eliminated to reduce the maximum range of the projectiles.

Even though I opened this can of worms, at least partially, with my cast bullet load, I want to clarify my personal position. I don't shoot factory 30-06 ammo in my garands regardless of bullet weight, and I would not dream of shooting a greater than 180 grain jacketed bullet in my rifles. I actually think the rifles would handle them fine, but they are approachin 90 years old and I treat them more like museum items. I am satisfied the cast bullet load is safe from my own hyper-focus driven research.

References:

.30-06 Springfield - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org

7.62×51mm NATO - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Lee Second Edition Revised 2016, pg 548, 552, 553
 
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