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M16's Replacement?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by BrokenButterfly, Mar 5, 2009.

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  1. BrokenButterfly

    BrokenButterfly member

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    Is it true? I heard that the U.S. army is looking for something to replace the M16. I don't know what it would be but the M16 has been around for a long time.
     
  2. Jorg Nysgerrig

    Jorg Nysgerrig Member

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  3. Jaws

    Jaws Member

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    With Obama looking to cut some 40 billions in goverment spending, I doubt you'll see a new rifle or a better round any time soon.
     
  4. Bill2e

    Bill2e Member

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    CMP Surplus M16's :D:D:D:D:D:D


    Of course they would probally crush them like Klinto did with the M14's:fire::cuss::fire::cuss::banghead::banghead::banghead:
     
  5. servantofinari

    servantofinari Member

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    They have had two big trials, both went badly, but one did finnish with the SCAR being semi adopted. i vote for a bullpup in the end.
     
  6. Matrix187

    Matrix187 Member

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    Not for awhile. Nothing out there is that much more effective than the M16/M4 platform to justify replacing every single gun in the military.

    The SCAR is for the special forces only, and I couldn't see the military being able to replace all the m4s/m16's for quite a long time.
     
  7. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    SOCOM sort of adopted the SCAR, though there were or are delays on fielding the weapon. My last unit was supposed to be getting them at three different dates over the course of the last couple years before I ETS'ed last fall. I've heard different stories on the delay.

    Big Army announced a while back they'd be taking submissions for a replacement for the M16/M4, though I agree with the previous poster who suggested budget limits will prevent them acting on the idea any time soon.
     
  8. messerist

    messerist Member

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    IMHO I think the Military is "gun shy"(pardon the pun) when it comes to tackling the issue of a replacement. I remember back during the 80s when Army Times Soldier and Stars and Stripes were full of articles and photos about the new "Advance Combat Rifle." Recently there was another competition to choose a successor that came to naught. Is there no better firearm? Does the potential threat require a new system? I know that a lot of M14s and other off the shelf systems are showing up at the front to fill a void in lethality. Is the M16 fraternity too powerful? Should the Military choose a new weapon will it perform? I think that is the issue. They don't want a dud. Good topics for furthers threads.
     
  9. The Deer Hunter

    The Deer Hunter Member

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    I hear about some new rifle that "the military wants to test" to replace the M16 about every six months.

    There was the XM8, which I guess failed, and then all the guns that everyone sees on Futureweapons, like the HK416, and thinks because it was on television means it's the new rifle. In my opinion, most of it's just hype.

    IIRC, the military did do some testing on the M4 against a couple rifles including the HK416. I forget what came of it, if anything.
     
  10. DocBoCook

    DocBoCook Member

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    Bill2E, one more reason to hate klinton. I loved that firearm while they still had a few left in service in the PacNorWest
     
  11. servantofinari

    servantofinari Member

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    a glorified G36 that had a melting issue. by the time they fixes its little problems it was "too heavy" the idea of a assault rifle that weighs less than 7 pounds is just ridicules right now. Oh and just call it a G36a1 or something, don’t give it a new name just because its in a new body.
     
  12. davidjblythe

    davidjblythe Member

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    The unit I just arrived at is still getting factory new M16-A4's. Most Marines I talk to tell me that they saw the armorer remove the new weapon from the wrapper when they got it issued to them. We are still de-issuing the M16-A2s...
     
  13. everallm

    everallm Member

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    The issue with replacement is not just the weapon but everything else that goes with it in the supply chain from ammunition, magazines, cleaning kits, training, BFA's and MILES etc etc etc.

    One major problem is that there is huge inertia in procurement and people rarely get marked down on their fitness reports for not taking the initiative on this.........

    Take all the lessons learned from EVERYONE not just in one area, throw out the assumptions and received wisdom THEN design.

    There really needs to be a top to tail review starting from the ground up with caliber, velocity,ergonomics, optics etc etc unfortunately, the last time a real soup to nuts was done was with the EM-2 and look what happened there.
     
  14. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    If anybody knew what they were doing, they'd bring back the M-14.

    Now THAT is a real rifle.
     
  15. TRGRHPY

    TRGRHPY Member

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    Not sure on the details, but I think that they're waiting to see how the scar develops since the platform takes care of 2 calibers.
     
  16. servantofinari

    servantofinari Member

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    One, its round is overkill, we should go to 6.5 Grendel. The M-14 is still used as a DM rifle. Its a good gun, but it's not what we need in the hands of "every" soldier.
     
  17. rangerruck

    rangerruck Member

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    they have been looking for it's replacement since about 1967. Still around. the only improvements I see, is to make it totally modular, with the ability to go to a diff, heavier round, with only changing the bbl. all other things continue to work; bolt, bolt face, mags, everything. Something that will have to be very close to a Grendel. and the bbl needs to be changed , without tools. Also , this will have to work, without a gas impingement system, they are going to have to perfect the piston. then we will get a change.
    Last but not least, a totally waterproof , inclosed, easy to change out trigger pac, that can be exchanged from what it is now, to electronic trigger, and it needs to be able to be changed, without tools, in the field, by the leg or airborne, that is carrying an extra trigger pac on him.
     
  18. RevolvingCylinder

    RevolvingCylinder Member

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    That pretty much sums it up. When they come up with something actually new and actually improved like Armalite's rifle then we can start talking about replacement. Putting the same old pre-60s technology into a plastic case does not make it new. I'd personally like to see something new and innovative instead of the same old cookie cutter stuff. That goes for pistols too. Just because everyone else is doing it does not make it the end-all. If that were the case we'd still be debating the best spear to equip our army. We really don't need to waste our money on old technology when that money could be spent transitioning to actual new technology in the near future.
     
  19. RevolvingCylinder

    RevolvingCylinder Member

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    Does not benefit the average soldier.
    Why would it "have to" take a step back in the development of our infantry rifle? The M16/M4 series is one of the most reliable weapons in our inventory right now. More so than our gas piston-utilizing machine guns.

    I can't make sense of the electronic "trigger pac" concept of yours. What would it offer other than drastically reduced reliability in the field?
     
  20. 06

    06 Member

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    My truck gun is an M1-A. If I have to shoot I want something that I like using and that I have total confidence in. My M4 stays in the safe, wc
     
  21. THE MACHINIST

    THE MACHINIST Member

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    The 6.8 mm Remington SPC (or 6.8x43mm) were keeping the ar frame but changing the cartrige its being used in afganistan right now by elite groups.
     
  22. elmerfudd

    elmerfudd Member

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    The main selling point of the 6.5 Grendel is that it can fit in a magwell originally intended for a 5.56 cartridge. That makes fairly good sense if you want to just switch uppers and keep the AR platform, but if you intend on going to something new why use a cartridge limited by the magwell dimensions of a rifle you're replacing?

    If you make the magwell longer or wider then you could go with a much better cartridge.
     
  23. bkb0000

    bkb0000 Member

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    not sure if anyone mentioned this, but the 5.56 is the NATO round. we're not going to a different caliber until NATO does.

    the 6.5 has phenominal ballistics, but nobody's got anything that shoots it cept some US civilian manufacturers, as far as I know.

    to the bullpup question- it's great for constipation, but nobody's keen on having the chamber under his cheek. An OBD on a bullpup could kill you.
     
  24. KevinAbbeyTech

    KevinAbbeyTech Member

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    When they do replace it, I would imagine that they would go with a completely modular weapons system.

    Something like a Magpul Masada/Bushmaster ARC.
     
  25. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Which did not stop the Brits, Austrians, French, & Aussies from adopting at least one. Ok, so the Brits adopted a dog, but they are sticking with that dog even if it won't shoot weak hand at all.

    le Clarion has held up in some right hostile places and without being babied by armorers every day.

    A top-load, bottom-eject bullpup using a telescoped round in the 6.5-7mm range would have a lot to recommend it. Sadly, US law prevents a would-be "Carbine Williams" from really making that leap. Which leaves innovation in the hands of inertia-laden big companies.
     
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