How hard is it to find 7.62x 25 hollow points for hand loading? I would love a PMm, a p64, or a cz 82, but 9x18 is not available near me and the local shops are making the consumers pay the hazmat fee for ordering ammo off a list, and not taking special orders. I checked out the high point, but it did not fit me well, Im 5'7" and below 150lbs, it was just too chunky to conceal. What cal is that Taurus?
M1895 Nagant as low cost ccw revolver?
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Janos Dracwlya
Member
I have a Nagant, which I don't shoot much owing to the expense of factory ammunition. It would be far from my first choice for a defensive gun, but, in common with most of my guns, I keep a small amount of defensive ammunition for it - .32 S&W Long hollow-points, which will also work in my Iver-Johnson top-break - just in case. The trigger-pull is heavy and it would be slow to reload if needed.
On the other hand, it is a very well constructed gun, and I would at least have no doubt of it functioning when needed.
I also remember reading at least one article in Backwoodsman (I think) where the author was quite complimentary of it as a low-cost .32 pistol for wandering the woods.
On the other hand, it is a very well constructed gun, and I would at least have no doubt of it functioning when needed.
I also remember reading at least one article in Backwoodsman (I think) where the author was quite complimentary of it as a low-cost .32 pistol for wandering the woods.
Deltaboy1984
Member
Get a Hi-Point.
91/30, I have seen tools to drill a cavity in a 7.62x25 and make it hollow point. Does it worth it? I dunno, I personally would keep it FMJ. But, it does have a rather massive cartridge behind that bullet.
WRT 9x18, I only know of two places here selling that round. I usually look for it online, even in these times.
WRT 9x18, I only know of two places here selling that round. I usually look for it online, even in these times.
Has anyone used this http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/diy-extreme-hollow-point-maker-kit.aspx?a=891185 ? If so, was it worth the money? Again, Hi-point does not fit me well. I am investigating the tokarev, a zastava m-57 new for $200 near me, with some ammo at a reasonable price. but that moves out of revolvers and into autoloaders.
45_auto
Member
There must be a 100 gun shops and pawn shops in Dallas within a 15 or 20 minute drive of you. I just picked up a 2" barrel S&W Model 10 in like new condition for $179 last week.
If you're serious about concealed carry and self-defense, get something proven and practical. If you're just looking for an excuse for something to play with, get the Tokarov or Zastava and the hollow pointing doohickey and justify it to yourself as self-defense.
If you're serious about concealed carry and self-defense, get something proven and practical. If you're just looking for an excuse for something to play with, get the Tokarov or Zastava and the hollow pointing doohickey and justify it to yourself as self-defense.
45_auto I am not a fan of pawnshop guns, had a couple of bad ones from different shops. The other issue is ammo. While I can get a model 10 it can't take +p defense loads and .38 special defensive rounds are just too expensive, when I can find them. Whereas at the cabelas down the street I cam get an arsenal refurbished nagant and a box of ammo for $173+ plus tax.
Hokkmike
Member
There are two at my LGS. They have been there a long time. Buck and a half. Look OK -but I not moving....
The Teacher
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I've seen two different loads from the surplus.
82gr at 1200-1300fps
105gr at 800-900fps.
I believe the PPU loads are 98gr at 600-700fps.
ljnowell
Member
Thats the most backwards thinking I have ever read. I would take a standard pressure 38 load over a nagant round any day of the week. Not to mention that the model 10 will most definately take +p ammo for carry purposes. Would I shoot asteady diet of it? No, I wouldnt out of any 38. Would I shoot a cylinder to see how it hits, then carry it? Absolutely.
ljnowell
Member
Balderdash. There is no reason not to. I'm not sure if you know this, but prior to +p spec ammo, the standard was +p. When they made +p spec, they didnt start loading hot ammo. Standard spec became +p and watered down became standard. Those guns shot +p ammo way back when, it was just called "38 special." There is no reason to be afraid to carry +p ammo in a model 10 S&W. None at all. I certainly wouldnt trust my life to ruskie milsurp in an underpowered cartridge like the 7.62 nagant over a 38. Even if you only carried standard pressure ammo. That just simply defies all logic
If sounds like you just want someone to say to you "yeah, that sounds like a great idea, do it!" Well, its not. There are many better options for the same, or just a little more money.
Any Model 10 S&W that is marked -4 or greater is capable of handling +P ammunition.
Pre war hand ejectors cannot take the strain of +P loads due to metallurgiucal differences and post war guns prior to -4s have a habit of unscrewing the ejector rod with high pressure loads.
Early Nagant revolvers have the same metallurgical issues as the early S&Ws and add to that the fact wartime guns were being made for people who had a life expectancy of about a week once they got into combat with the issue weapon sinking into the mud of the battlefield or being destroyed along with the soldier. you can understand why high power/high pressure loads are not recommended for these guns
Pre war hand ejectors cannot take the strain of +P loads due to metallurgiucal differences and post war guns prior to -4s have a habit of unscrewing the ejector rod with high pressure loads.
Early Nagant revolvers have the same metallurgical issues as the early S&Ws and add to that the fact wartime guns were being made for people who had a life expectancy of about a week once they got into combat with the issue weapon sinking into the mud of the battlefield or being destroyed along with the soldier. you can understand why high power/high pressure loads are not recommended for these guns
Stainz
Member
Yes, comrade, this is what you need - an 1895 Nagant, holster, and lanyard. Perhaps a Swiss Army Knife as your 'tactical' knife, like my Vic ALOX Farmer... it would make as much sense today. Oh, the ammo is a Meister 100gr LDEWC over enough Titegroup to make 700 fps (WOW!) and loaded in a 'modified' .32-20 case. Each case had .010" taken off the rim thickness, .024" taken off the rim OD (Yep, on a lathe!), and was sized in a Lee carbide M1 Carbine die - then loaded with .32 dies. The short case does not 'bridge the b/c gap', so it can spit a bit but will enjoy a longer case life due to it's thick mouth thickness. Starline briefly made the proper brass, but the short reloading life halted that. Lee did make an 1895 Nagant die set, albeit with a steel sizer. Most folks don't realize that the proper case is tapered - a la the .30 Carbine round. A straight-walled .32, like the .32 S&W/S&WL/H&RM, will wiggle around - and bulge or split upon firing. The .32 H&RM rounds should not be used due to their higher pressure. Check the gunboards forum's sub-forum on 1895 Nagants for more info.
I got a C&R ffl just to have these things delivered to my door. Arsenal refurbed - and looking almost new - they were as little as $65 +$10 s/h with holster, lanyard, screwdriver, & cleaning rod, back then. Checking my log book from 8/04, I chronoed the Russian Target ammo @ 572 fps; Fiocchi @ 690 fps, and Magtech .32 S&WL 98gr LRN @ 604 fps. The Fiocchi cases could usually be reloaded once, while the .32 S&WL brass was bulged & split, rendering it ready for the brass recycling bin - like the Ruskie cases, with their snake-eyes primer holes. The Serbian ammo available today seems warmer than the Fiocchi was - I need to chrono it. It is reloadable, too - at least once - and is of the proper length, a la the Fiocchi.
I wouldn't carry or employ as a home protector, a Nagant as a self protection revolver. Even at ~$200 today, it really is nothing more, to me, than a novelty. Tweaked and cleaned, you might get down to 20 lb on the DA trigger pull. Some folks will need the help of adrenaline to pull the trigger. A far better choice would be a 2"-4" S&W Model 64, a la a security guard trade-in ($200-$300). The 64 is a SS Model 10 - and is inherently +P rated. Even .38 Spcl 148gr full wadcutters, aka 'target' ammo, will be a better 'man-stopper' than anything you could load in a Nagant today. Of course, if you want a Russian made and hand-fitted novel example of Victorian engineering - designed by the Belgian brothers Nagant - and it looks clean with a bright bore - grab it. Save your $ and buy a .38 revolver for 'protection'.
Stainz
I got a C&R ffl just to have these things delivered to my door. Arsenal refurbed - and looking almost new - they were as little as $65 +$10 s/h with holster, lanyard, screwdriver, & cleaning rod, back then. Checking my log book from 8/04, I chronoed the Russian Target ammo @ 572 fps; Fiocchi @ 690 fps, and Magtech .32 S&WL 98gr LRN @ 604 fps. The Fiocchi cases could usually be reloaded once, while the .32 S&WL brass was bulged & split, rendering it ready for the brass recycling bin - like the Ruskie cases, with their snake-eyes primer holes. The Serbian ammo available today seems warmer than the Fiocchi was - I need to chrono it. It is reloadable, too - at least once - and is of the proper length, a la the Fiocchi.
I wouldn't carry or employ as a home protector, a Nagant as a self protection revolver. Even at ~$200 today, it really is nothing more, to me, than a novelty. Tweaked and cleaned, you might get down to 20 lb on the DA trigger pull. Some folks will need the help of adrenaline to pull the trigger. A far better choice would be a 2"-4" S&W Model 64, a la a security guard trade-in ($200-$300). The 64 is a SS Model 10 - and is inherently +P rated. Even .38 Spcl 148gr full wadcutters, aka 'target' ammo, will be a better 'man-stopper' than anything you could load in a Nagant today. Of course, if you want a Russian made and hand-fitted novel example of Victorian engineering - designed by the Belgian brothers Nagant - and it looks clean with a bright bore - grab it. Save your $ and buy a .38 revolver for 'protection'.
Stainz
I've done all the math.
I can get a reload tooting along at 900 fps using a 90 grain jacketed hollowpoint or jacketed flatpoint and loaded EXACTLY like the original Nagant using Privi or Fiocci cases.
Problem is getting all the stuff to do it, bullets are near impossible to find, powder and primers are still a be in the right place at the right time sort of thing and getting all the bits to assemble a correct set of dies is a catch as catch can proposition.
My Nagant is a hobby in the works that will ultimately cost me more in goodies than the original purchase price of the firearm,,,
I can get a reload tooting along at 900 fps using a 90 grain jacketed hollowpoint or jacketed flatpoint and loaded EXACTLY like the original Nagant using Privi or Fiocci cases.
Problem is getting all the stuff to do it, bullets are near impossible to find, powder and primers are still a be in the right place at the right time sort of thing and getting all the bits to assemble a correct set of dies is a catch as catch can proposition.
My Nagant is a hobby in the works that will ultimately cost me more in goodies than the original purchase price of the firearm,,,
WardenWolf
member
Gold Dot has .30 caliber pistol hollowpoints available, I know that much. They're what Brass Fetcher used for their tests. They created some horrifying results. So if you choose to reload, you should use those bullets. One nice thing about the Tokarev is that it's very reliable across cartridge variations, and even when converting to a different cartridge. The feed lips are part of the gun's hammer assembly, not the magazine, so that also helps.
A Nagant would be better than nothing for self defense, but not by much. The heavy DA trigger is a problem, ammo availability is a problem, slow reloading is a problem.
It's a neat artifact, an interesting side note in the history of revolver development, but for any practical use you'd be far better off with an S&W Model 10 in 38 Special.
It's a neat artifact, an interesting side note in the history of revolver development, but for any practical use you'd be far better off with an S&W Model 10 in 38 Special.
Putting the idea of the Nagant as a "Low cost CCW revolver" to rest.
The gun cost me $130, cheap enough right?
250 rounds of ammo, reloadable, shipped, $145,,wait,,what????
Dies and parts to convert dies to properly load Nagant cases $60, shipped, (These are Lee dies, cheaper than the RCBS Nagant specific dies which cost $160!, ouch)
300 85 grain jacketed HP bullets $58 shipped, just shy of 20 cents a bullet. That is JUST the bullet mind you. You can load this cartridge with lead bullets. You will quickly come to regret the decision if you shoot any meaningful quantities at any one time.
So, $130+$145+$60+$58=$423 for the gun & 550 rounds of ammo.
I wanted one of these guns for my collection, no regrets in that department.
You are kidding yourself if you think these guns are a poor mans way to play.
Taurus revolvers crop up and generally sell for less than $300 and .38 Special ammo is usually available in some quantity just about everywhere and that ammo situation will change in time.
The gun cost me $130, cheap enough right?
250 rounds of ammo, reloadable, shipped, $145,,wait,,what????
Dies and parts to convert dies to properly load Nagant cases $60, shipped, (These are Lee dies, cheaper than the RCBS Nagant specific dies which cost $160!, ouch)
300 85 grain jacketed HP bullets $58 shipped, just shy of 20 cents a bullet. That is JUST the bullet mind you. You can load this cartridge with lead bullets. You will quickly come to regret the decision if you shoot any meaningful quantities at any one time.
So, $130+$145+$60+$58=$423 for the gun & 550 rounds of ammo.
I wanted one of these guns for my collection, no regrets in that department.
You are kidding yourself if you think these guns are a poor mans way to play.
Taurus revolvers crop up and generally sell for less than $300 and .38 Special ammo is usually available in some quantity just about everywhere and that ammo situation will change in time.
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