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M1A losing ground to other 308's?

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by cpileri, Oct 4, 2004.

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  1. cpileri

    cpileri Member

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    Lots of people like the 308: a good blend of power, range, compactness, price, versatility.
    Lots of people like the M1A. (I can hear the FAL fans getting agitated...)

    But is the M1A losing ground in the sami-auto battle rifle arena to other rifles? namely, the reintroduction of the AR-10? or will the coming of the higher-capacity magazines for the 308 Saiga usurp the M1A from its lofty position?

    That Saiga has the AK thing going for it: ruggedness and simplicity. Is it accurate like the M1A? or cn it be made to be so?

    I am searching for the perfect 308 MBR and I thought sure it would be an M1A. But now with the Bushmaster 308 and Siaga promising to make larger cap mags for theirs... my resolve is weakening!

    Any thoughts?
    C-
    p.s. after this thread has run for awhile, i will maliciously enter the info into my other ongoing thread seen here:http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?threadid=103541
    (evil laugh follows)
     
  2. El Rojo

    El Rojo Member

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    I have an M1A and I like it. If I didn't live in the PRK, I would most certainly get a DSA FAL too. The idea of being able to buy quality magazines for $10 or less would make me want one. Then again, the Bushmaster takes FAL mags doesn't it? I guess I would need one of each.
     
  3. blue86buick

    blue86buick Member

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    I don't know if it's losing ground, but I Thank You sir! You reminded me that with the death of the UWB (Ugly Weapon Ban), Saiga's will now have hi-capacity (20-30) round magazines available, and so I am DEFINITELY in the market for a .308 Saiga. :)
     
  4. Bwana John

    Bwana John Member

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    I love my M-1A for shooting NM HiPower Service Rifle, with its precision and accuracy, its great trigger, great sights, long sight radius, marksman style sling set up(as apposed to carry style), and familiar lines for somebody used to M1,M1 car,M-14,Mini 14 type actions.
    I will admit that latley I have been unfateful with another, my Congo FAL with its ergonamics, cheap parts and mags, and the WESCOG attitude that seems to work fine when gunsmithing on them. I constantly lament the lack of the above in the FAL, and have spent mucho $ trying to make the FAL shoot like the M-1A.
     
  5. BevrFevr

    BevrFevr Member

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    M1a = heavy for what it is

    I much prefer the lighter weight guns. But hey the only .308's I have is a couple of bolt guns.

    I love the feel of siagas and fals in comparison.

    -bevr
     
  6. fistful

    fistful member

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    The other guns will never have the class of the M1A, or its accuracy. If it's losing ground, it's either because of price, or because ugly guns ;) like the FAL and AR are gaining in popularity. Hopefully, Springfield will begin to bring down the price on their base model. Let us pray.
     
  7. artherd

    artherd member

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    I'd own an AR-10 (DPMS, Armalite, Bushmaster) or best yet, KAC SR-25, long before an M1a.
     
  8. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    I dunno, but I've seen so many people with M1A's kickstarting their rifles (stomping on the oprod handle to eject a stuck case), or having other malfs. Where as on a well built FAL, the thing just won't choke. Every 500 or so rounds through it just add a little more militec-1 to loosen up the carbon/grease deposits, and it keeps on humming.
    Although in the accuracy department the FAL seriously gives up ground to the AR's and M1A.

    atek3
     
  9. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    The AR-10 is easier and cheaper to make accurate than the M1A/M14.

    For an AR10, you pretty much just need a good barrel and a fitted bolt.

    On an M1A/M14, you need the whole thing bedded, unitized, etc.

    Expect to spend about 50% more on an M1A with the same guaranteed accuracy.

    -z
     
  10. Telperion

    Telperion Member

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    The AR designs are also easier to keep accurate. A bedded M1A is a bit of a prima donna and requires more expensive maintainence. The AR-10 family has no bedding that will shoot loose.

    The AR-10 offers much better options for adding optics. The provision for a scope mount on the M1A almost feels like an afterthought.

    Also, Springfield rifles are quite expensive for what they offer, and there are too many reports of QC problems to ignore.
     
  11. Badger Arms

    Badger Arms Member

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    I like the M1A. Those who grew up on a Garand and/or Mini-14 will appreciate its ergonomics... BUT...

    - It's not as accurate as an AR-10, Knights, or any other AR Pattern .308
    - It's not as rugged or good a design as the FAL
    - It's not as cool as the HK-91/G3.
    - It's not as cheap as the Saiga .308
    - And it's not as mall-ninja-able as most guns on the market but Springfield Armory is working on that one.

    I'm of the opinion that the bes 308 Semi on the market was designed BEFORE the M14:

    [​IMG]
     

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  12. SIGarmed

    SIGarmed Member

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    The M1A isn't loosing ground in California for obvious reasons.

    If I could have one I'd take an AR-10 over an FAL anyday.
     
  13. Dionysusigma

    Dionysusigma Member

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    I'd take...

    A Saiga before an AR-10 (incl. Bushmaster's .308)
    A FAL before a Saiga
    A PTR-91 before a FAL
    And an M1A before (or at the same time as) a PTR-91

    :)
     
  14. Headless Thompson Gunner

    Headless Thompson Gunner Member

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    I own a FAL and an AR-10. I've used both M1 Garands and M1As extensively.

    Of those, I'd probably put the M1A at the bottom of the list. Each of the others is better than the M1A in some respect.

    The AR-10 has better sight/scope options, a better trigger, and much better ergonomics. It's more accurate than the M1A, and isn't prone to bedding problems.

    The FAL is far more rugged and robust than the M1A. If you want a rifle that can laugh off the worst imaginable conditions, the FAL is it. The FAL also has great ergonomics, and disturbingly cheap magazines.

    The Garand is virtually identical to the M1A, but has the adantage of using those 8-round en bloc clips. The clips are cheaper, lighter, smaller, and much faster to reload than 20-round M1A magazines. En blocs can also be stored loaded indefinitely without worry. The Garand has all of the same sight, trigger, and accuracy potential of the M1A, but without the sometimes troublesome box magazine sticking out the bottom.


    The m1A simply can't outdo the others in any significant way. It might make a good compromise between the precision of the AR-10 and the robustness of the FAL. But the Garand can do that too, and do it better.
     
  15. 444

    444 Member

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    I really like to play with all the rifles mentioned.
    I may actually buy some others in the future.
    But my choice is the M1A.

    A couple problems I have with the responses so far:
    It has been mentioned that an M1A that has been bedded becomes sort of fragile. I have heard that this is true. BUT, that is only if yours is glass bedded. If you leave it alone, this is not an issue. Depending on what you are doing with the rifle, this may or may not be an issue. Obviously, if you want a target rifle capable of as much accuracy as possible, this is an issue. Also, if you are looking for a target rifle, the FAL and the HK are not even an option. If you are looking for a "battle rifle" this isn't an issue since your will be shooting a stock M1A.

    "The Garand has all of the same sight, trigger, and accuracy potential of the M1A, but without the sometimes troublesome box magazine sticking out the bottom."
    According to Roland Beaver (someone that would know), the M1 is the more accurate of the two and requres less work to make it a target rifle than the M1A.

    "The clips are cheaper, lighter, smaller, and much faster to reload than 20-round M1A magazines."
    Really ? You can load an 8 round clip faster than a 20 round mag ? :D
    That is kind of obvious, but doesn't hold true if you are loading the magazine or the rifle itself with stripper clips. Also, obviouly, that this leaves out the most important part: if you start out with both rifles fully loaded, one has 20 rounds in it and the other one has 8. And, if you have spare magazines, it takes about the same amount of time to load either one except after your reload, one has 20 rounds in it and the other one has 8.

    "I've seen so many people with M1A's kickstarting their rifles (stomping on the oprod handle to eject a stuck case), or having other malfs. "
    I see this as a plus. If you have a problem that requres you to do this, you can't kick open an FAL or an AR10.

    Of course these discussions always end up getting into the idea of being combat proven. The AR10 and the Saiga arn't.
     
  16. lotus

    lotus Member

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    Good topic. Given that I just sold my M1A last week to finance a Ban-Free FAL I guess you know my answer! ;)
     
  17. shoobe01

    shoobe01 Member

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    You sure can kick open (or, safer yet, barricade clear) a FAL. Big handle on the left side. Mine doesn't jam, but a friend had a garage-built badly-headspaced version once.

    A side note: Why are semi-auto FAL clones always called FALs but semi-auto M14 clones called M1As. I know that Springfield calls them that, but its just their brand name. Screw them and call it an M14.
     
  18. Sven

    Sven Senior Member

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    Can the FAL beat the M1A as a sniper for accuracy?
     
  19. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    If you want accuracy, the FAL is the wrong platform.

    -z
     
  20. RKCheung

    RKCheung Member

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    Apparently the Army still likes the platform in Iraq.

    top.baghdad.rifle.ap.jpg
     
  21. MaceWindu

    MaceWindu Member

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    Funny?! I haven't seen ONE AR-10 in Irag, Somalia, etc...NOT ONE:scrutiny: ...

    But, the M1A/ M14 has been in EVERY conflict since Vietnam....no inaccuracy reports, reliability problems....why? Battleproven......

    nuff said...:D


    MaceWindu
     
  22. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    MW-
    Customer photo on the Armalite web site (AR-10):
    [​IMG]

    I thought I saw one of KevinB too, but I can't find it now.
     
  23. molonlabe

    molonlabe Member

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    I've had my M1A National Match since 87 (cost $1100.00) and put a lot of rounds through it and the bedding is as tight as the day I bought it. So I don't understand the statement that it shakes loose????
     
  24. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    I haven't claimed (yet) that they shake loose. I originally said that the same accuracy M14 would be about 50% more expensive than the AR10.

    I was looking in to buying a "built" M14 last year and most smiths said to not expect to remove and replace the action in the stock without the bedding loosening up.

    -z
     
  25. fistful

    fistful member

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    Zak Smith,

    If you're trying to say that the AR-10 is being used in "Irag, Somalia, etc.," then maybe you should tell us where the picture was taken, by whom, and who was using the gun. The picture could have been taken in California, for all I can tell. (Not that evil assault rifles are allowed in that socialist paradise, where all are safe and happy.)
     
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