M9 vs 1911

M9 or 1911?

  • M9

    Votes: 79 25.3%

  • 1911

    Votes: 233 74.7%
  • Total voters
    312
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Sig 226.


OK, seriously. It does not matter. My Sig 226 is as reliable as a GLOCK. But you know what? It is more accurate than a GLOCK in my hands. It also fits my hand nicely. The GLOCK? I do not shoot as well with it, or the BHP, or the M-9. The Sig 226 is pretty much the best pistol out there, period. For me, that is.


For you... the XD may feel better. The M-9 may feel better. Maybe a 1911, maybe an EAA, maybe a FNP, maybe a GLOCK, maybe X, Y, or Z. Every gun has lemons, I have seen many weapons malfunction over time- GLOCK pistols included- and what it boils down to is if YOUR weapon is reliable... if YOUR weapon fits YOU and YOU do well with it.

Shoot your weapon. Then tell me if it is reliable- don't bet your life on what someone else tells you. And before you buy one? Try them all out! Talk to friends, go to a range and rent them, dry fire them at gun shops... see what fits you, what sights you like, what controls are easiest for you to manipulate. Then buy it, and shoot the heck out of it. If it is reliable- good. Because when it boils down to it, your life does not depend on how well I shoot with my pistol 1,000 miles away or what brand/size/caliber I like- or if my weapon has been reliable; but rather, what pistol YOU are best with and what brand/size/caliber you are confident with- and if your particular weapon is reliable.


As you can probably guess, I also didn't vote in the poll...
 
I own many 1911's and a couple M9's and IMHO the 1911 is superior in most aspects (reliability, stopping power, parts availability, simplicity of design) except ammo capacity and that nifty Decocker on the M9- But hey th 1911 has that nifty grip safety so they counter each other out.

There is a reason special ops guys use the 1911 and it's 45ACP.
 
The difference between a 9mm and a .45's diameter is about one-tenth of an inch. On a pistol, knockdown power is largely a myth. You have to hit the vitals or CNS. A lot of people I know that used the M9 didn't have any complaints about stopping power, anymore than the complaints about the M-16 vs. M-14. You may have to shoot more than once, regardless of what weapon you use. Until you hit the CNS, you aren't going to get instant stoppage.

As far as military decisions go, when you have to get 1 million of the same thing (for logistical/training purposes) compromises have to be made. I wonder what the difference would be in cost-per-unit between the m9 and the 1911. I think uncle Sam pays less than $185 per M9.

Also keep in mine, your average GI Joe isn't going to train that much with a sidearm so uncle Sam prefers something easy and idiot-proof. The M9 is about as idiot proof as it gets.... the 1911 on the other hand requires someone much better trained, both for maintenance and safe usage.

Special ops guys use the SIG 226 and 1911's b/c they can do whatever they want and they are uber-soldiers. On the other hand, I only get to shoot a weapon once every 3 years for my career field. The average soldier doesn't get much weapon training. Those who do use small arms, like infantry, spend their time on more important things like their rifles, grenade launchers, and support weapons.

But the question is what is the better combat handgun. Hell, as long as it's not a Nambu, they all work about the same. None of them penetrate body armor, none of them are that accurate past 7 yards (under combat stress with little training), and in the sandbox - anything not properly maintained can jam.

Also, 60 rounds of 9mm is a lot more than 28 rounds of .45 (4 magazines), especially when all you get is ball ammo.
I have heard of a burglar who once got shot by 6 rounds of .45 FMJ's and still ran for like 2 minutes before collapsing. His CNS/vitals were not hit for an instant stop. Even the troll-slaying .45 ACP round is still just a pistol round.
 
There is a reason special ops guys use the 1911 and it's 45ACP.
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In 6 years ( with 1 1/2 in the sandbox) I have never ever seen a 1911 .45acp carried by any of the spec ops guys. I have seen Sigs, Berettas, and yes even a few Glocks.
 
R12GS--The spec ops guys carrying the m1911 are just that good that's why you haven't seen them! :neener:

I'm not taking the use of the 1911 from gunboards by the way. Anytime anyone tells me they are or were Spec Ops my BS meter usually goes off scale into Mall Ninja range. There is some serious documentation out there on Spec Ops and M1911 use. Kinda like the proliferation of M14's among some of the fellas.:D
 
I thought all the Delta Force guys get customized 1911s. I don't really know anything though about Army S.F.

I just know the gate guards and MP's all carry Beretta's :) and supposedly the SEALs carry Sigs.

The closest I have been to special forces was seeing the PJ's hanger in Kadena, or talking to a Combat Control Trainee on a bus at Lackland.
 
I'm not taking the use of the 1911 from gunboards by the way. Anytime anyone tells me they are or were Spec Ops my BS meter usually goes off scale into Mall Ninja range. There is some serious documentation out there on Spec Ops and M1911 use. Kinda like the proliferation of M14's among some of the fellas.
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I never claimed to be Spec Ops nor related in anyway. I can tell you from first hand personal experience of being fwd deployed and seeing Spec Ops members almost on a daily basis, that I had never not once seen any of them with a 1911. Take from that what you will, if you choose to remain ignorant of the matter, thats a choice you have to live with. And btw yes I seen a few M14's. We had ONE in our squad for a short time for the DM, but they were never en masse. Anymore I can do to alleviate your misconceptions?
 
For me or the gunnies here, a 1911 would probably work better.

For the crap these things go through in a battleground, climbing over stuff, and to throw into the hands of an inexperienced grunt in basic training, I think the M9 would function better. And I'm an American fanboy.

Getting into other points, I'd prefer to see a higher-capacity 1911 or, even better, a DA/SA Beretta in .40 or .45.
 
I personally have never been in combat but I do have a lot of friends that have done or are doing some combat time in either Iraq, Afghanistan or (in most cases) both. I have noticed that when you mention the M9 they get this sour look and start in with various horror stories about having to use most of a magazine in a FUBAR moment just to get the bad guy to start thinking about ceasing hostilities. Everyone of them mention replacing the pointless 9mm sidearm with a more effective sidearm in .45acp.
 
The .45 wouldn't stop those people either... people do not fly back when shot, many times, they don't even fall down unless they realize they have been shot or they lose their balance.


FYI, the M9 is also American made... any manufacturer that wants to win a contract with the military has to set up a plant in the US to supply the weapons... hence how we got FN USA, Beretta USA, Sig Arms (now, thankfully, changed back to Sig Sauer), etc. All made in America...
 
I have carried both pistols into combat. I was a 60 gunner and was issued a sidearm with it. My personal preference is for the 1911 due to the fact that it won't jam up in sand/mud quickly like other pistols. Yes I carried one that was first issued in the early 40's and it was very loose but was still able to qualify expert with it. Nothing wrong with the M9, I just happen to shoot the 1911 better and it also seemed more reliable in the environments that I was in at the time.
 
I'd go with the 1911 because of the frame mounted safety.

A CCW instructor I know is occasionally known to carry both a 1911 and M9 at the same time.
 
I'm not taking the use of the 1911 from gunboards by the way. Anytime anyone tells me they are or were Spec Ops my BS meter usually goes off scale into Mall Ninja range. There is some serious documentation out there on Spec Ops and M1911 use. Kinda like the proliferation of M14's among some of the fellas.

SOF (Green Berets) carry M9's
SEALs carry Sigs and occasionally Glocks and/or HK's
Delta carries 1911 and Glocks
MEUSOC carries 1911 Kimbers

Maybe you don't know what you're babbling about.
 
R12GS--The spec ops guys carrying the m1911 are just that good that's why you haven't seen them!

I'm not taking the use of the 1911 from gunboards by the way. Anytime anyone tells me they are or were Spec Ops my BS meter usually goes off scale into Mall Ninja range. There is some serious documentation out there on Spec Ops and M1911 use. Kinda like the proliferation of M14's among some of the fellas.
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I did 4+ years in an SF unit as a support guy -- non-doorkicking secret squirrel ninja stuff, but worked directly with and for ODAs, my Group's SFAUC committee, SOTIC committee, and other cool guys extensively.

1911 use among SOF units is overstated on duh intraweb by a couple orders of magnitude. CAG/Delta guys used to be exclusive 1911 users a long time ago, and they've mostly switched to Glocks for all intents and purposes.

Like CorporalK said, SF units mostly just use the M9. There is some variation in this that does include some ODAs carrying 1911s they scrounged up within the inventory, but that also includes guys scrounging up Glocks, HK USPs, and various other stuff from the JOS warehouse or other official means. But mostly it's M9s. There are guys in SF who swear by the 1911, and guys who consider them overly delicate antiques that don't have any real utility in the field even if they're great for IPSC.

Can't speak for the SEALs or MARSOC with any personal experience, though like anyone else whose read about, my understanding is SEALs don't issue 1911s and MARSOC purchased a bunch of Kimbers (and Springfields?).

As for the proliferation of the M14 -- SEALs are supposed to like them, but again, I've never worked with the SEALs. Only M14s I ever saw being used by SOF units were some AFSOC units that had USGI M14s for OPFOR weapons during some training exercises we did with them. The actual CCTs and PJs carried M4s like most everyone else.

I personally have never been in combat but I do have a lot of friends that have done or are doing some combat time in either Iraq, Afghanistan or (in most cases) both. I have noticed that when you mention the M9 they get this sour look and start in with various horror stories about having to use most of a magazine in a FUBAR moment just to get the bad guy to start thinking about ceasing hostilities. Everyone of them mention replacing the pointless 9mm sidearm with a more effective sidearm in .45acp.
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???

Kind of reminds me of the guys who got surveyed on weapons effectiveness after the invasion of Iraq who "knew" 9mm ammo lacked stopping power and the ability to end a fight . . . but who admitted on the survey that they had never fired their sidearm in combat or known anyone who had. They had, presumably, read plenty of issues of Bullets and Blammo or whatever where "experts" went on about how 45 ACP will throw a bull elephant to the ground dead from the toenail hit and all that, so "knew" the "facts."

Either pistol caliber sucks for ending a fight. Shot placement and repetition are the only safe bets if you're using a handgun. Guys who chose to carry 1911s in the SOF community mostly are doing so because they really like the 1911 ergonomics and can put rounds on target faster -- or they've had enough Beretta locking blocks break that they'd take a Hi-Point as an alternative if it came down to it.
 
"experts" went on about how 45 ACP will throw a bull elephant to the ground dead from the toenail hit

That's great, man. I've gotta remember that for the next .45 vs ?? debate.
 
for me it's the 1911 because in a oh <deleted> situation that extra power could save your life
 
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After having carried a M1911A1 in the Army, I was estatic to hear they were being replaced. I only wish that the Glock 17 would have been ready in time as it would have been better than either.
 
maybe it's just me but it seems like some of you are more debating whether .45 is better than 9mm rather than talking about the better pistol
 
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