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Magpul PDR

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by PercyShelley, Jun 14, 2007.

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  1. PercyShelley

    PercyShelley Member

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    http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1011

    Didn't see a thread about it here so I suppose I'll start one.

    The PDR is Magpul's latest project to be unveiled. It appears to be in the mockup stage at this point, but assuming the final product matches the specifications stated for it, it will be a tidy little piece of engineering.

    The following features grab my attention:

    1) The bolt appears to be very short, as there isn't much room between the back of the magazine and the butt.

    2) The ejection port is quite a bit forward of the action. This diagonal ejection scheme appears to be a compromise between conventional ejection and F2000 style forward ejection. The gun appears to be lefty-compatible (but don't pucker your lips when you shoot it that way!) but not overly difficult to clear of a jam.

    3) It appears that the gun will have a breakopen takedown procedure like an AR-15 or FAL.

    If the final product can match what's published now about the mockup, it'll be a p90 killer for sure.
     
  2. Number 6

    Number 6 Member

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    I am not sure that it is a P90 killer, and I have some reservations about the design. First, can they tame the flash on a 5.56 round coming out of 10 inch barrel? Second, noise is going to be an issue with such a small barrel and a 5.56 round. Third, with such a light gun the recoil is going to be at the very least greater than a Stoner based system, if not much greater. I think the design is intriguing, but I still would like to see how it stacks up against HK's, FN's, and Knight's designs. A healthy amount of skepticism is always good for what ails you.
     
  3. PercyShelley

    PercyShelley Member

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    In all fairness, anything said about the design now is pure speculation on our part because magpul hasn't even produced a functioning prototype yet.

    That said, if they can make the gun to the projected specifications, I forsee the following advantages over the P90:

    1) It will be lighter; indeed, almost as light as H&K's MP7.

    2) It will be appreciably more powerful.

    3) It will not use proprietary ammunition or magazines.

    2 and 3 apply to comparisons against the MP7, and 1 and 3 against the KAC PDW. It will also be shorter than the KAC PDW with the stock extended, although one might argue that these PDWs are so short that they're ergonomically incorrect.

    Recoil and flash will probably have to be tamed with some sort of miniaturized suppressor/moderator unit, but there's plenty of room.

    That said, the specs so far published for this gun are mighty ambitious, and I will be very much impressed if they are met entirely.
     
  4. buzz_knox

    buzz_knox Member

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    One of Noveske's muzzle devices would work well here.
     
  5. PercyShelley

    PercyShelley Member

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    New information here.
     
  6. HorseSoldier

    HorseSoldier Member

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    I think the thing has the potential to run the P90 and MP7 out of the market entirely, as far as most government military/LE contracts are concerned if it is managable while firing and mechanically reliable. The logistics commonality angle will appeal to pretty much any agency already using 5.56mm and STANAG mags. The greater thump compared to 5.7 FN or 4.6x30 shouldn't hurt either.
     
  7. PercyShelley

    PercyShelley Member

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    I also wonder what potential lengthened versions might have as straight up assault rifles. The PDR seems to have a very short action behind the barrel. A PDR-based assault rifle would be two inches shorter than an AUG with a barrel of the same length, for example.
     
  8. Bigfoot

    Bigfoot Member

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    I can't bring up the linked PDF but I've read that Magpul states that they will release it to the public. In order to keep the length over 26" they will have to give it an 18-20" barrel. The light weight in the rear and the short LOP means that it will feel and balance well. This rifle version is the one that I want, without the vertical grip please.:)

    The Defense Review link says it's easily convertable to 6.5 and 6.8. Umm, I want that too. :)

    A 26" long, 5 lb bullpup in 6.5 or 6.8 with a short LOP. Yep, works for me.
     
  9. yongxingfreesty

    yongxingfreesty Member

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    looks pretty cool
     
  10. Logan5

    Logan5 Member

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    looks like a very cool "non-functional prototype mockup", but just looking at it, that charging handle can't possibly move that bolt far enough back to get near that magwell.

    Off topic, but is there a collector's market for prototype mockups? I imagine they are non guns, generally?
     
  11. PercyShelley

    PercyShelley Member

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    The bolt must be very short, and the charging handle must be mounted on some sort of transfer bar.

    The on the fly, reversible ejection is interesting. Given the relative positions of the magazine well and ejection ports, and the description of the system, I would guess that the brass is initially ejected forwards, and hits a deflector that can be oriented to the right or left. I wonder why they didn't go with forward ejection; it would only require that the tube be lengthened.
     
  12. W.E.G.

    W.E.G. Member

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    You break it, you buy it!

    [​IMG]
     
  13. PTK

    PTK Member

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    W.E.G.

    Yes, it's a mockup. We're all amazed how witty you are.
     
  14. Oohrah

    Oohrah Member

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    Have not seen anything but good come out of Magpul !!!!!!!
     
  15. max popenker

    max popenker Member

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    Personally, i would hate to have a 5.56 muzzle-blast (all from 11" barrel which is too short for a standard 5.56) in about 8" from my eyes and ears.
    Note that in most cases you will not have an appropriate hearing protection in combat; i only fired a full-size M16 indoors, but it was bad enough for my ears, and i can only imagine how deaf operator will be after just one burst of this little beast indoors.
    [​IMG]

    This gun just screams for a sound moderator, but it will add at least 4" of length.
     
  16. mrmeval

    mrmeval Member

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    Can a suppressor and barrel combo for 5.56 be the same length as that barrel and still be useful?
     
  17. max popenker

    max popenker Member

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    yes it can - at the cost of the barrel length and thus the muzzle velocity / energy / range / lethality.
    Of cause you can go the integrated suppressor route and save some by placing the rear part of the muffler around the barrel, but this approach has its own downsides.
     
  18. mrmeval

    mrmeval Member

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    Thanks Max,

    If you have any experience would this be more effective than an
    unsuppressed P90? At least would it be more comfortable? I've shot the short ones and they are very unpleasant.
     
  19. doubleg

    doubleg Member

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    The other day I was talking to my ARMY recruiter and asked him "How can you guys shoot with out going deaf?". His reply was " 99% of the time even during combat we have plugs in."
     
  20. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    a little bit of thread drift, but how reliable is forward ejection when firing upwards (like, say, MOUT scenarios where the user is on the street firing up at rooftops at a steep angle)? That always struck me as something that works great at the range, not so great in real life.

    Mike
     
  21. max popenker

    max popenker Member

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    That's for infantry grunts, but imagine a truck driver who rode into an ambush and bailed out of the cab with his PDW? Or a downed helicopter pilot? or a comm operator?
    remember, that PDW's are not for infantry - those are for "the other people", who will hardly have the earplugs on at the moment of SHTF, nor will they have the time to plug their ear once S has hit the F.

    Sorry, never fired a P90. But remember that 5.7x28mm ammo has significantly less powder (than .223), and it is optimized for short pistol / smg barrels.
     
  22. PercyShelley

    PercyShelley Member

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    There's a video around here of an FS2000 being fired with the ejection port cover closed and the tube filled with brass. It ejects positively every time.

    The approach might not be that bad.
     
  23. Coronach

    Coronach Moderator Emeritus

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    Straight up?

    Mike
     
  24. PercyShelley

    PercyShelley Member

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  25. PTK

    PTK Member

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    Mike

    The cover is held by a detent and not only is it popped open, ALL the brass in the ejection tube comes out. I'd say that's positive ejection.

    I do wonder about straight up ejection, though.
     
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