Magpul PDR

[Darthbauer]

It looks exactly like the SMG from Halo2. I wonder if they were sitting there playing xbox and thought that hey we should make one of these guns? Id get one but I live in CA, so thats not going to happen.

Question? If soldiers are in combat with earplugs in how can they hear people sneaking up on them?

 

[SpeedAKL]

Looks kinda cool; hopefully they'll over a semi-auto version to civilians, I'm sure people wouldn't mind paying the $250 tax for a high-end high-tech weapon like this.

 

[Coronach]

I do wonder about straight up ejection, though.

Yeah, I've played around with a FN2000 or whatever FN's swoopy new bullpup is called (it was nifty, and compact, but something about the way it balances just leaves me cold). The ejection is positive, for sure...but I dunno how well it would handle the tube being near-vertical.

If I would have had a magazine of blanks I would have tried it myself, but the gun club frowns upon sending bullets on high parabolic arcs.

Mike

 

[CleverNickname]

Can a suppressor and barrel combo for 5.56 be the same length as that barrel and still be useful?

FWIW most suppressor manufacturers don't warranty their 5.56mm suppressors for use with barrels shorter than 12" or so. Something about the bullet not being stabilized enough and getting baffle strikes.

 

[PPGMD]

The PDR design is planned to include a small moderator so the sound issues isn't as big of an issue.

 

[Wes Janson]

5.56 out of a barrel that short is still going to be awfully loud, especially that close to one's face.

 

[Thin Black Line]

That's for infantry grunts, but imagine a truck driver who rode into an ambush and bailed out of the cab with his PDW? Or a downed helicopter pilot? or a comm operator?
remember, that PDW's are not for infantry - those are for "the other people", who will hardly have the earplugs on at the moment of SHTF, nor will they have the time to plug their ear once S has hit the F.

Non-Combat Arms people are also wearing ear plugs on convoys and in
helicopters (blackhawks are very very loud on the inside). I would've liked
a weapon this short for pointing out the thick swing window of my uparmored
humvee. Instead I "settled" for a mossberg with a folding stock when I
rode shotgun

 

[PercyShelley]

They mention that it could easily be rechambered in 6mm, by which I assume they mean 6x35mm KAC PDW, which is intended for short barrels such as these. That would be nearly perfect, but would negate the advantage of using current magazines and ammo.

 

[chieftain]

I think Magpul should deliver their first promised rifle, BEFORE, they start dangling other non existing tidbits.

Yup others have done it. But I have yet to see a gun manufacturer who hasn't ever produced a weapon before, dangle a second non existing rifle before the first model isn't in existence yet.

Go figure.

Fred

 

[bl4ckd0g]

This is one more item on the 'undelivered rifles' list. Despite my urge to go out and buy one after my disappointment with the PS90, I'd like to see its initial performance and predicted pricepoint.

Regarding the muzzle report, I'm sure I could experiment with .223 rem handgun loads on my progressive press to keep my eyebrows from being torched.

 

[strambo]

That looks like an ideal "vaporware" replacement for my imaginary P90. Sweet!

 

[Tyris]

FWIW most suppressor manufacturers don't warranty their 5.56mm suppressors for use with barrels shorter than 12" or so. Something about the bullet not being stabilized enough and getting baffle strikes.

I think they're lying and covering up for material and construction short comings of their cans.

If it did not stabilize that would imply some wildly inaccurate guns. There are plenty of reports of SBRs with 10" barrels that shoot good groups, visit silencertalk.com to see for yourself.

What really happens on a short barrel length rifles is the increased pressure muzzle blast will erode the blast baffle at an accelerated rate as compared to 16"+ barrels. Most mediocre cans use stainless steel for blast baffles, better cans use inconel instead. Good manufacturers will warranty their cans to 10 or 10.5" barrels.

-T

 

[PPGMD]

Tyris,

I think the best way to answer this is to quote Trey Knight III in response to the question "What is the shortest barrel lenght KAC will warranty a 5.56 can on?"

Trey responds: "We warranty for factory defects. If I get a can back and the blast baffle is heavily eroded I am going to question the firing schedule. I feel our cans will be as durable as anything else on the market if not more. They should be they are heavy."

AAC tested their SCAR-SD can on a 7.3" AR:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=etj7buHcmM8

The military tested the AAC M4-2000 Mod 07 on a 10" Hk 416. The military test was over 800 rounds IIRC. Also tested was the full auto Surefire can (not sure if Surefire makes a distinction on the 5.56 cans, they do on the 30 cal cans), and a KAC can.

So I think this is more about companies going cheap on the blast baffle, like Gemtech, which uses titanium and a roll pin in their G5 can.

 

[HorseSoldier]

If it did not stabilize that would imply some wildly inaccurate guns. There are plenty of reports of SBRs with 10" barrels that shoot good groups, visit silencertalk.com to see for yourself.

I've seen guys make consistent hits on steel chest plates at beyond 900 meters with a 12" barreled upper on an M4A1. Admittedly this was with bipod, Mk 262 ammo, Horus Talon, and probably most important, the ballistics software the comes with the Horus scope in the mix. But, regardless, barrel length won't prevent an M4/M16 from grouping minute of chest plate/man at very extreme distances if the shooter can do his part. (No claims made as to how much thump the bullet still had at those ranges, however.)

Question? If soldiers are in combat with earplugs in how can they hear people sneaking up on them?

It's all situation dependent. If you're planning on skulking around all sneaky-like, ear plugs may not be the right answer. If you're rolling into a raid in the back of an AFV or helicopter, or in a hum-vee where a guy is banging away on a .50 cal or 240, you may as well have ear pro in since you'll be half-deaf by the time you get there anyway.

Or you can wear peltors.

 

[Nolo]

It looks exactly like the SMG from Halo2. I wonder if they were sitting there playing xbox and thought that hey we should make one of these guns? Id get one but I live in CA, so thats not going to happen.

No it doesn't.
Not any more than a Beretta 92FS looks exactly like a Colt M1911.
Halo 2 & 3 SMG:

Magpul PDR-C:

 

[PercyShelley]

Way I figure it, rifling converts a certain amount of the bullet's forward momentum to angular momentum. A bullet of a design, and therefore with a given length, moment of inertia, frontal area, astrological sign, et cetera needs a certain amount of angular momentum to stabilize satisfactorily. Since a long barrel will let a bullet gain more forward momentum, it should also allow it to gain more angular momentum.

For reasonable short-barreled rifles, bullets and twist rates, though, it clearly isn't a problem because people are still grouping fine.

Sick idea: If this gun can readily be converted to 6.5 Grendel, that means it has enough play to fit an x39 bolt face, which means in turn that it can probably be rechambered in .50 beowulf.

Finally, [geek] this is most certainly unlike the SMGs from Halo. As you may recall, the Halo SMGs are caseless.[/geek]

 

[Nolo]

Yes, that's true.

 

[Mr. Alloy]

Any update on this? It was supposed to be released in '08, and while I'm not surprised it wasn't, from what I've heard of Magpul, I'm starting to get ancy.

Has there even been a working prototype yet?

 

[Coronach]

Well, the Masada got turned into the ACR and went into another timewarp, so I bet this thing ain;t doing much better.

I have a new term for the vaporware: we're being masadamized.

Mike