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Magpul Pmag Problems

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Thin Black Line, Mar 22, 2007.

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  1. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    I had problems from the start with the new pmags feeding in my Bushmaster.
    This was with both Wolf and Winchester and happened with all three of the
    four mags I loaded (I didn't bother trying with the last one). The first round
    in each mag would consistently not strip since the nose would smash below
    the feed ramp. After I cleared out the first two or three rounds, it would
    cycle fine for a while and then the same thing would often happen with the
    the 3rd or so last round toward the end. This also happened a couple times
    in the middle, but not as consistently.

    I don't know if this was a factor, but the mags would wobble a lot. Some
    other notes I should make for the THR community was that all firing was
    done standing or kneeling --none prone so pressure on the mag from the
    bottom was not a factor. The same rifle has functioned with all other makes
    of quality mags: aluminum (Bush, Colt, OK, LaBelle, etc), orlite, thermold, etc.
    standing, kneeling, prone while monopodding on the mags etc. BTW, I did
    not run over any of the mags with a vehicle like the Magpul guys did in their
    video.

    I did not have a chance to do this at the range, but once I got home I
    swapped out the new pmag springs with some very used orlite springs and
    manually cycled through 30 rounds of M855 a couple times with each of the
    three mags. I had one first round hang-up and a couple of slow strippings,
    but it seemed to function better. I'll leave them loaded with the old springs
    and try firing again in the next few days or so.

    Has anyone else have similar experiences with these mags? Does this just
    sound like excessively tight new springs?

    Thanks!
     
  2. Bartholomew Roberts

    Bartholomew Roberts Moderator Emeritus

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    I'd contact Magpul. They have top notch customer service and will want to hear about the problem, even if you solve it yourself, since they are always improving their products.

    It could just be there are some contact points in the new mag that haven't worn in yet and the extra friction is creating problems.
     
  3. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    This is something that I expected to run without a bug given Magpul's reputation
    and viral video marketing of this product.

    Another problem for them was that I was out with the county's police firearm
    instructor at his range when this happened. We joked about making our own
    Youtube video to post alongside Magpul's Pmag Truck video.

    But yes, rest assured I will contact Magpul. ;)
     
  4. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    Definitely contact Magpul. They will be eager to find and address the issue.

    Some other local shooters and I have been using these for about a month and have not been able to get them to fail in 10+ guns. I am curious to find out what's going on in your case!
     
  5. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    I haven't seen a single problem reported in any other forum and that's why
    I also ordered them. I do have an unintentional "Murphy's Law" effect on
    things and yet I don't even try to abuse my equipment. Started way back
    with the original Glock17 that came in with the adjustable snappable rear site. :D

    If I can run the mags thru a couple other brands of AR15 and/or swap some
    uppers if/before I send the mags back, I will certainly post my impressions of
    that as well. I can pull out my other bushie (a safequeen m4gery) and cycle
    it, but I'd also like to give a friend's RRA a try.

    If it's possibly a magwell or feedramp issue with my particular rifle, would
    either of you have any suggestions such as a brand with a tighter magwell or
    more forgiving feed ramp?

    BTW, the rifle was a pre-2004, pre-buyout Bushie.
     
  6. Gary G23

    Gary G23 Member

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    "If it's possibly a magwell or feedramp issue with my particular rifle, would
    either of you have any suggestions such as a brand with a tighter magwell or
    more forgiving feed ramp?"

    It sounds to me like M4 feed ramps might solve your problem. All three of my AR's have M4 ramps (LMT, CMMG, Sabre).

    I just got my PMAGs today and haven't had a chance to try them out yet.
     
  7. Redhat

    Redhat Member.

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    Did you clean them?

    Have you tried adjusting your magazine release?
     
  8. Gary G23

    Gary G23 Member

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  9. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    Gary, the pic on the bottom of page 1 shows what was happening. In some
    cases, the round wasn't even angled that high and was literally sliding straight
    forward from the mag. When I would pull out a couple rds and "roll" the
    remaining rds back into the mag a little with the tip of my thumb, I would
    hear the spring "crinkle" and when I would let go the rds would slowly roll back
    up against the feed lips. This was why I had leaned toward a spring problem
    to begin with, but it would also seem the feed lip cut should be changed ever
    so slightly at the factory.

    The mags came new/as is. I loaded them. They didn't work right from the
    start. After the trip to the range, I disassembled them and they were clean
    (inside the mag body, follower, spring etc). These did not appear to be the
    ones ran over in the Magpul employee parking lot or full of sand from some
    distant T&E.

    I could give my mag release another turn, but again keep in mind that I've
    had no other problems with a vast assortment of other mags that didn't have
    major feed lip issues to begin with (bent steel aftermarkets; notched out
    orlites, etc). In most cases, those would have loose rounds that would jump
    out beause the lips weren't strong enough. The majority of my mags over
    the years literally came out of a sealed wrap which were then loaded and
    used straight away.
     
  10. Redhat

    Redhat Member.

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    If you unload the mags and take a pencil or other object, then push the follower down then release, do they move smoothly in the body. No burs or anything. Since you switched springs, it sounds to me like the follower may not be moving freely.

    Wish you luck with it.
     
  11. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    With the springs swapped out for shorter, very used Orlite springs, the Pmags
    would manually dry function through the same rifle. When I put in a USGI
    spring of approximately the same length as the original Pmag, I had the same
    tight and subsequent jam problem. However, in playing around with the
    different spring I noticed the type of finish was different with the orlites and
    the "curve" of the bends and elbows (sorry, I'm not an engineer) were
    different between the USGI and the pmag. Shorter overall length as well as
    ease of compression seemed to make the best difference. Again, I could
    hear the original spring "crinkle" under pressure and the rds would seem way
    too tight prior to cycling problems. The rds would also not freely roll back
    towards the top when the mag was mostly full and pushed down with my
    thumb both with the original Pmag springs and the replacement springs which
    later ended up having the most problems. I went through 10 used orlite springs
    to get four that would work better with the Pmags --and one is still a bit iffy
    but that was the best I could do with the whole pile. I might have used the
    springs from my Canadian mil thermolds, but those worked 100% from the start.
    I'm not going to sacrifice those for the pmags, but the orlites were on their
    last legs as it is.

    BTW, Magpul replied to my email the same day it was received and provided
    me with a first name and number for someone to call. I am still awaiting a
    return call and will report back their suggestions both to the THR community
    and the police trainer who witnessed the pmag failures. He has far less tolerance
    for problem mags than I do and considers orlites "use once and throw away" mags.
     
  12. Redhat

    Redhat Member.

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    I dunno,

    Sounds like they have some bugs to work out yet. Still, if you switched around all those springs and are still having problems, sounds like the followers have some rough spots. If they stick, I don't see how a different spring could fix it.

    You guys get to try all kinds of different stuff, me I'm stuck with what's issued., Colt M4, GI magazines.:D
     
  13. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    LOL, but those work and far better than the Center ones I was issued.
     
  14. DWARREN123

    DWARREN123 Member

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    I would say either spring or follower angle.
     
  15. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    Quick update.

    All four mags would initially run fine from the first round in the Bushmaster,
    but three of the four would have a round jam somewhere in the final 5-10
    rds of the mag. In one mag it happened 3 times in the same final 10.

    We took two of the most problematic mags and ran them once each through
    a new RRA complete factory lower w/ a Model1 16" heavy bbl/chrome bore.
    Both mags ran all the way through without a problem.

    The mag seemed to wobble just as much in both lowers....so the mystery
    deepens.
     
  16. Redhat

    Redhat Member.

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    Maybe the mage catch is too tight, squeezing it?
     
  17. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    Another Update:

    One mag was modified as per Magpul website:

    http://www.magpul.com/movie/pmod.wmv

    I ran 30 rds 4 times without a problem this morning through the modified pmag
    and the same Bushie.

    Note: Range was 23 degrees F and windchill brought it down to about 10F.
    I did notice as both the mag and the rds I used to reload went as cold as
    the outside, that they did seem a little sluggish in feeding as fast as when
    the first loaded mag came warm out of the jeep. In any case, there was
    no nose hang-up. BTW, I used ultramax 55g fmj. Will try some wolf next
    time around and mod the other mags to increase sample size.

    It would have been interesting to see how the pmag would've run had it been
    really cold out today --like <0. :cool:
     
  18. Redhat

    Redhat Member.

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    Thanks...interesting
     
  19. HRT

    HRT Member

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    Well I expect that I am probably the norm here rather than the exception. My 5 new PMags ran perfectly in a brief range outing today. I do like the dust covers and they fit the mag well on my purpose built stag lower ver well.
     
  20. illspirit

    illspirit Member

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    Did you happen to try the Ultramax in the unmodified mags too?

    I just got a couple of Pmags a week or so ago that haven't been used yet, and a bunch of Ultramax laying around. I'll be a sad panda if the mags don't like the ammo.
     
  21. Thin Black Line

    Thin Black Line Member

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    Yes. I used Ultramax 55g, Wolf (steel case) 55g, and a little m855 62g
    in the mags when they were unmodified. I'm not going to waste much LC on
    this and will keep premium ammo for the aluminum mags that have proved
    flawless from the beginning.

    I also forgot to add on my last update that I continued using the softer old
    Israeli orlite spings for yesterday's shoot because the pmag factory springs
    still seemed excessively tight --changing the feed area of the mag will not
    change this. The mag I used yesterday was the worst offender out of the
    original unmod'ed batch, so I'm expecting the others to perform at least as
    well.

    Given this problem with something as simple as mags, I will not be among the
    first people to purchase magpul's new rifle when it comes out next year. I
    will let someone else work out the bugs on that one. If there is a problem
    with their first run, it would definitely find its way into my hands like other
    quirky firearms have over the years and I don't feel like paying $1400 to
    provide T&E for magpul......
     
  22. blackhawk2000

    blackhawk2000 member

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    Just curious, but is Magpul going to change the design to reflect the modification?
     
  23. Redhat

    Redhat Member.

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    I don't want to insult your decision to buy the magpul magazines, but I find it surprising they want folks to grind off part of the feed lips!

    I expected to hear them tell you they would exchange the unmodified mags you are having trouble for a set of new modified ones.

    Sounds like they expect the customer to fix their problem for them?
     
  24. illspirit

    illspirit Member

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    Ouch. Thanks for the reply, Thin Black Line. Now if only I had waited for the batch next month with the windows as originally planned. :banghead:

    @Redhat and blackhawk2000- Magpul guy somewhere on ar15.com said they've changed the molds to match the fix. He also said you could send them in for an exchange. Not sure if they'll pay for the shipping though.
     
  25. Gary G23

    Gary G23 Member

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    You don't grind off part of the feed lips. You grind off the area in front of the feed lips. That is what is causing the rounds to angle inward and hit between the two feed ramps.

    Yes Magpul will exchange bodies when the new ones become available. They offer the modification for those that need to get their mags running before then.

    I have six PMAGs and they all run great. I used them at a three gun match last weekend.
     
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