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MagSafe; Yay or Nay?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by Ovid, Feb 5, 2006.

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  1. Ovid

    Ovid Member

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    I've been reading up on MagSafe ammunition, and trying to decide if there is any place for them in self defense firearms. At first glance, these seem to be the ideal defense ammuntion (and IDK; they MAY be), but there are a few things about them that make me pause before trusting them with my life;

    I've read the article at firearmstactical about pre-fragmented ammo under penetrating, and this also makes me concerned; what if the BG is wearing heavy clothing?
    http://www.firearmstactical.com/tacticalbriefs/volume4/number3/article432.htm

    MagSafe claims that "elite forces", police, Navy SEALs, ect. use MagSafe ammo, but I have been unable to verify this as well. Are there any PDs that carry MagSafes or Safety Slugs? And if so, are there any "street reports" with them?

    MagSafe uses the "Strasbourg Tests" (where supposedly 600 "french-alpine" goats were shot) to demonstrate the efficacy of their ammo, yet
    I've been unable to confirm that the "Strasbourg Tests" even happened at all, let alone happened as they say. If such a massive study were undertaken. wouldn't there be some documentation?

    Does anyone here have any experience with MagSafe shootings?
     
  2. Snake Eyes

    Snake Eyes Member

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    I'm of the opinion that anything worth shooting is worth shooting with real bullets.

    YMMV.
     
  3. The_Antibubba

    The_Antibubba Member

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    Maybe the elite forces use it; the government would be about the only ones wealthy enough to test 200-300 rounds of it per gun! :cuss: $15 for five is asking too much.

    OTOH, if I heard from someone reliable (and not their adcopy) that these things were truly effective and reliable, I might get a few packages for revolver use. But for a semi-auto? Not without at least 200 through it.
     
  4. roscoe

    roscoe Member

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    If you live in a modern apartment with sheetrock party walls, this may be the way to go. I had a friend who had a bullet pass through the party wall and into his sofa. He was away, fortunately.

    I agree - revolver only.
     
  5. ghost squire

    ghost squire member

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    These babies will go through walls about as well as any other bullet. They are totally inadequate for use for self defense. What if hes aiming a gun at you? His arms will be up and the bullet will likely hit them, fragmenting and doing no real damage.

    I won't go into it in detail.

    GIGN used these a while back, then they stopped using them.

    The Strasbourg tests probably did happen. But you have to remember that these were unobstructed lung shots on goats from a set distance away. The bullets did not hit ribs in the test and they did not aim for the heart. If the bad guy is more then that distance away, or hes wearing heavy clothing, or if the bullet hits an arm or rib etc etc it will FAIL.
     
  6. 1911user

    1911user Member

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    I have no use for them. A good belt buckle or an arm will keep them from the intended target. I'm convinced hype and insanely-high prices contribute to their sales. After all, if it costs more than a dollar per shot, then it must be really good ammo. Right?
     
  7. mrmeval

    mrmeval Member

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    Get it and do your own tests in your gun. You can use newspaper as a simulant with and without clothing and also do accuracy tests at bench rest. If you can't do this then do it with what you can afford. Anything else is random tacticooooool spewage.

     
  8. crofrog

    crofrog Member

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    In the very link you posted it contains the infomation about the pentratoin of the round. It's listed as 3 inch's average. Considering an almost perfect shot requires 7-10 inchs to reach vital organ's assuming nothing is obstructing the bullet and you are shooting him from the front.

    Now start adding shots from the side, or through his arms to get to his chest, and you will never properly pentrate the target and cause damange to structures of the body nesscary to kill someone quickly.

    Because of these considerations 12 inchs is considered the _minimum_ with 14 being recommended.

    I also considering it's not outside the relm of possibilty for regular JHP and FMJ to deflect or not pentrate the bone of the skull. I'd not be the the least bit surprised if mag safe was in cabable of even producing reliable pentration into the crainum. Also, if it does with it's 12 #2 copper plated pellet's that produce a permant crush area of less than .07 inch's if it would even destroy enough of the brain to cause an immediate stop.

    Chris
     
  9. Nicky Santoro

    Nicky Santoro Member

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  10. SpookyPistolero

    SpookyPistolero Member

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    The 9mm functioned reliably in the two auto's I tried them in. They also functioned well in an M1 carbine.

    A 9mm round was stopped by a thin wall separating two rooms in my home. If the intended role of the weapon that you'll be loading is something indoors, where overpentration would put others at risk, then these are viable defense rounds. Otherwise, I would stick to standard types of ammunition (HP, FMJ, etc.).
     
  11. thorazine

    thorazine Member

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    Nay!

    Gimme some ranger talons instead!
     
  12. TC-TX

    TC-TX Member

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    Not NO... but NO WAY!!!
     
  13. rock jock

    rock jock Member

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    I've read quite a bit about fragmenting ammo and am convinced that when they find a nice fleshy part of the body, their terminal ballistics are pretty devastating, much more so than conventional ball/FMJ. BUT, when they hit bone/heavy clothing/any obstruction, they can come up seriously short. Maybe some folks are good enough under stress to make the perfect shot, but I am not.
     
  14. ghost squire

    ghost squire member

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    Whos good enough to make a shot through a gap in the ribcage and into the heart?! Jelly Bryce maybe, with his smoothbore .38
     
  15. orangeninja

    orangeninja Member

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    I know this is not scientific proof or anything, but the only perp I've ever heard of being shot with Mag-Safe stuff lived. He was shot 3 times with Mag-Safe and "fortunantly" for the perp, the stuff fragmented in his body and didn't cause serious damage because of lack of penetration.

    My .02....stick with Gold Dot, Golden Saber, Hydrashock or Winchester SXT....it's the stuff all the Uber Ammo companies wish they were.

    As for elite forces using them....I'm sure they do, to shoot at paper when it is donated to them. I have serious doubts that they use it in actual combat however.

    I could give a pair of tweezers to an Army Ranger then turn around and market them as the "tweezers used by America's elite forces".

    Gimmeabreak:barf:
     
  16. Soybomb

    Soybomb Member

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    I think all your concerns are very valid, and I consider them to be unsuitable for self defense. I also think birdshot is too though and some people would swear by it, but I think you see the flaws.
     
  17. shooter1

    shooter1 Member

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    NAY!!

    str1
     
  18. cookekdjr

    cookekdjr Member

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    Magsafe ammo is a bad idea. Far too little penetration. If you want magsafe performance out of your .45, just by a .32 acp. Want Magsafe performance out of your 9mm? Buy a .25 acp.
    The only time I'd feel safe in a gunfight with magsafes would be if the other guy was using them, and I had fmj's. :)
    -David
     
  19. PotatoJudge

    PotatoJudge Member

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    Tok MagSafe

    I recently shot a 7.62x25 MagSafe round at a tough skinned, thick green pumpkin from about 15 feet away. It hit POA from the cz-52 at that distance (and cycled the gun completely). Most of the pumpkin that was damaged flew back at me from a palm sized chunk in the front. The back side had 4 or 5 exit wounds from the pellets. It semmed to function as advertised. Don't know how anyone should take that for self defense purposes- except maybe against the Headless Horseman.
     
  20. Roundeyesamurai

    Roundeyesamurai Member

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    Remember, when it comes to anything in this industry (firearms, ammunition, training, hand-to-hand combat programs, etc.), that quite a few "elite forces" of various stripes will try anything and everything at least once to see if it has merit. Many salesmen will then advertise that "such-and-such agency/organization/unit uses" their product.

    Anytime you see "Used by __________", presume it means that they bought a sample of it, at least until you can prove otherwise.
     
  21. asknight

    asknight Member

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    All of the departments that I am familiar with carry one of the following four types of ammo in their primary gun, regardless of caliber. Speer Gold Dot, Remington Golden Saber, Winchester Ranger SXT, or Hornady TAP(XTP).

    Their BUG's usually carry Winchester Silvertips or CorBon loads in .32ACP or .380ACP.

    I have not yet been able to verify any departments using MagSafe.
     
  22. Roundeyesamurai

    Roundeyesamurai Member

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    Don't forget Hydra-Shok, that's still around (for some reason).
     
  23. CigarDave

    CigarDave Member

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    magsafe ammo

    Well almost everyone here seems to have nothing good to say about this ammo except for the one guy that actually fired it into something ...
    If you shoot it I'll bet you'll stop shooting your mouths off .
    In 9mm the 50gr traveles at over 2100 fps . I've crono'ed this myself using the ultra hard to get Agent load and the easy to find mini glock load which I deem the same . Next you'll be happy to know that I've fired both loads through 2 kevlar level II panels and backed by telephone books . It took 3 big books to stop it . Yes folks , there's no need for the FN 5 seven iom to go through body armor which the bad guys use routinely .( I'm a NYCPD cop , glock cert. armorer & compete in IDPA & IPSIC ) Next I used a glock 19 & 26 as well as a sig 228 to test accuracy at 25yrds . It preformed as well as ANY name brand 115 or 124gr ammo like winchester , pmp , cci , pmc or federal .
    Oh did I mention there virtually no recoil ? My 5yrd double tap groups are one inch ... As you know , most fire fights on the street ( non military ) occur within 5 - 10 feet .
    All I can say to the critics is to go buy an 8 pack for around $15.00 and try it . If you do you'll see everything I've said here is true . While you're at it stop at your local butcher and test it against a cheap roast .
    No I do not work for Magsafe in any way , shape or form . The fact is that Joe Zambone was a genius and my hat goes off to him . If you carry a 25acp with almost anyother round your better off using a knife any yes the .45acp SUPER SWAT 68gr. round not only cycles a Colt 1911 flawlessly but moves along at over 2200fps . So what does this mean in real life terms ? It will pass through heavy cloths ( like a level II vest ) & 9'' of the person wearing it . I used an old motorcycle jacket filled with a frying pan and phone books ( I like shooting phone books for some reason ) . Guest what , you didn't want to be standing behind this ...
    Go buy the ammo before you knock it . The only downside I can think of is the cost but with what's happening today , plinking ammo is catching up . End of story .
    -Dave
    PS ; Anyone ever hear of RBCD Performance Ammunition ? Guess what , this is equally nasty stuff and comes 20rds to the box for around $40 .
     
  24. PotatoJudge

    PotatoJudge Member

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    Man, I just caught my typo from two years ago. Too late to edit, I guess.

    CigarDave, how many rounds of MagSafe have you tested, total for all calibers?
     
  25. LawofThirds

    LawofThirds Member

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    Sorry but I'm not buying it.

    To the CigarDave:
    Not to knock any of your claims but empirical documented evidence does not support your position. A composite projectile that's designed to break apart and "dump" all the energy very quickly simply will not give the penetration desired since the act of breaking apart absorbs much of that energy. A hollowpoint trades some of the energy for an increased wound channel diameter and a more controlled and useful 12-18" of penetration.

    If super fast and ultra light was the end all for stopping power, why would african hunters that hunt dangerous game want big flat meplat bullets traveling at relatively low velocity?

    Even the lovely people over at our favorite abusers of lightning graphics, EXTREME SHOCK!!!!!11!!! have recognized this and have attempted to retain maximum inertia by using tungsten. Even using tungsten however, most independent reports have said that they fail to achieve more than 7-9".

    Sorry, but I call these Wunderammos like I call the claims of one Gander Mountain employee who swore up and down that Black Talons would go through "90 layers of kevlar" and that he had done it himself.
     
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