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Make Damned Sure This Isn't Permited In Your Kids Schools

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by DigitalWarrior, Sep 24, 2003.

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  1. DigitalWarrior

    DigitalWarrior Member

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    http://www.bowlingforcolumbine.com/library/teachers/index.php

    9. Is it your responsibility as an American to support gun rights or have modern weaponry and living conditions made the Second Amendment obsolete?

    Things to consider:

    What was the population of the United States when the Second Amendment was drafted and how did most Americans live?

    Compare this life to the current living conditions (both urban and rural) of the United States.

    What dangers (personal and social) did people face then compared to now?

    Consider the language of the Second Amendment. Do you think it refers to the individual right to possess guns or to the collective right of the people?

    19. Other than the gun violence, what other forms of violence does Moore point to in the film? Moore has stated that sometimes governmental acts, such as Michigan's Welfare to Work program, amount to state-sponsored acts of violence on the poor. What do you think he means by this? (See also lesson plan: Whose Terrorism? to explore a broader definition of terrorism and violence.)
     
  2. Black92LX

    Black92LX Member

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    i hope this guy gets taken out, it's the only way his propaganda will stop. but he need not be shot, car accident, bowlingball. anything but being shot:fire:
     
  3. DigitalWarrior

    DigitalWarrior Member

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    I just had no idea there was coursework created for this heap of untruths
     
  4. Mark Tyson

    Mark Tyson Member

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    This was an assignment in school, or what? What they ought to do is study the film in a journalism class as an example of how not to do a documentary.
     
  5. Henry Bowman

    Henry Bowman Senior Member

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    Hmmmm. Semi-automatic, armor-piercing assult bowling ball to COM.

    That takes the big and slow vs. light and fast argument to an extreme!
     
  6. Black92LX

    Black92LX Member

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    Henry Did you get my e-mail??
     
  7. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Just what the heck is a "collective right of the people" ....?

    If there even is such a thing, how would anyone define it? (Communes owning guns ....?)

    If the right to bear arms is not an individual right, just what is it ... the right of the government to bear arms???

    Since when do governments have to give themselves the right to bear arms in their constitution?
     
  8. Black92LX

    Black92LX Member

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    all of the 1st Ten Amendments (The Bill of Rights) are individual freedoms. people just like to twist the truth.:cuss:
     
  9. Intune

    Intune Member

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    9. Is it your responsibility as an American to support gun rights or have modern weaponry and living conditions made the Second Amendment obsolete?
    Supporting gun rights has become even more important.


    What was the population of the United States when the Second Amendment was drafted and how did most Americans live?
    Fewer people who lived with much more personal freedom without governmental intrusion.


    Compare this life to the current living conditions (both urban and rural) of the United States.
    No comparison. Our forefathers were much safer.

    What dangers (personal and social) did people face then compared to now?
    Indians and animals then, compared to imbecile filmmakers and tyrannical government now.

    Did I pass?
    :D
     
  10. semf

    semf member

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    If this is a High School course I wouldn't have as much of a problem with it. As long as it is teaching and not indoctrinating. I would encourage my kid to learn as much about the other side as possible. Who knows maybe the teacher is Pro 2A and trying to expose the liberal rant for what it is. I know I have run into a few of my son's teachers at the local gun shows.

    When I was in school we had Americanism vs Communism clas and I felt, in my teacher's case at least, that the class was presented in a non biased objective manner.
     
  11. cracked butt

    cracked butt Member

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    What makes michael moore think he has any credibility? Does he really believe his own lies and deceptions? What kind of egomaniacal person makes a 'documentery' based on lies and then feels its his duty to try to push this material for teachers to use? I would find Michael Jackson teaching a class on Black Studies more credible than anything moore extracts from his colon.
     
  12. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Member

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    How can the collective have rights that the individuals do not? Why is anyone even TALKING about collectives anymore? That's Commie talk. Communists are history's biggest losers; collectivism is loser talk, for crying out loud.
     
  13. DJJ

    DJJ Member

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    How about:

    9. Is it your responsibility as an American to support trial by jury or have modern forensics and investigative methods made the Sixth Amendment obsolete?
     
  14. Gordon Fink

    Gordon Fink Member

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    If I were a student and this assignment were given to my class, I would see it as a golden opportunity to demolish anti-rights rhetoric and to earn an easy A grade while doing so.

    ~G. Fink
     
  15. ballistic gelatin

    ballistic gelatin Member

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    I think a lot of bliss ninnys have infiltrated the education system so they can train young people. That way the graduates will know how to vote when they turn 18. "guns are bad". I know several anti's who are in positions of public authority and it makes me sick. What did that guy SunTzu say? Something about winning a war without ever having to resort to violence...that's what they're doing. They are out to get us...
     
  16. answerguy

    answerguy Member

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  17. uglygun

    uglygun Member

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    Take a look at the page where they recommend other books for further reading..... It's on the curricular connections page.


    On that list is Animal Farm as the number 1 suggested book.



    Anyone else here who has read that book come away from with with a meaning that strengthened your support of the individual's rights to own firearms? "Hello, McFly!" Now it's been awhile since I've read that book but it seems that the entire theme of that book was one of turmoil and battles for power. And what political belief system won out in the end through use of force?


    Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go put my tin foil beanie back on.
     
  18. jfh

    jfh Member

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    materials for teaching 'columbine....'

    I looked the materials over--when I was a HS English Teacher some thirty years ago (I've taught since, just not full-time and tenured), I would have died and gone to heaven to have some outline material like this.

    The material, as it is outlined here, is not particularly biased--it is a set of education-ese guidelines that helps teachers get a handle on popular topics of the day. In short, these kinds of materials really say nothing about what attitudes or biases the teacher may communicate in discussing the various topics shown here.

    I don't inherently think there's a danger in that--but I surely would want to know what personal biases a teacher that may come leaking through in "objective" discussions of materials.

    My current approach to these would be to make sure that students can know those personal beliefs of mine, and to make sure that they do understand how to judge those beliefs.

    HOWEVER: It is not hard to imagine that other teachers could not do that--i.e., they simply don't understand their own biases, much less recognize what are poorly grounded in (history, philosophy) politics, whatever.

    Ten years ago I did an extended sub job in a district ten miles from here, where NOT ONE other teacher seemed to recognize that their 'knowledge' of the 2nd Amendment ONLY as a 'government behest' was arguable. I attributed that to the fact that all of them were state-college graduates, and had gone to school at a time that liberal bias really tainted upper education--and nobody knew it. I had attended a private liberal arts college at that time, where I HAD been educated to become an objective analyst as well as to develop a value system to go with it.

    Bowling for Columbine seems to remain a popular topic--and I think it's a good idea to deal with this stuff head on. I wouldn't necessarily try to change an antigun kid's attitudes, but I suspect by the time I was done working the topic, the student would understand that this is NOT a documentary, but propaganda--and poorly done at that.

    So, if your kids see this show up in school, check out the supplementary materials. Look for the bias in the expansion of the outlines--e.g., where the teacher writes their own sub-items. This is where the bias is most likely to show up.

    Jim H.
     
  19. Blain

    Blain member

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    What are you talking about? The questions are intentionally constructed in a way as to present a biased response.


    "Why is there so much fear in American society?"


    "Do you think it refers to the individual right to possess guns or to the collective right of the people?"


    "9. Is it your responsibility as an American to support gun rights or have modern weaponry and living conditions made the Second Amendment obsolete?"


    The questions are phrased in such a way as to suggest that certain situations exist when they may not, or do not.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2003
  20. Justin

    Justin Moderator Staff Member

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    Ye Gods.

    For once I find myself agreeing with Blain.

    Given the wording of the questions, it seems rather obvious to me that they are attempting to direct not only where the discussion goes, but also which conclusions are drawn.
     
  21. ARperson

    ARperson Member

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    I disagree. There's no point in knowing about lies. If you are armed with the facts, then it doesn't really matter what you know about the other side. At least I don't care. Especially on issues such as this where there is an absolute right and wrong, and not just the relative morality they would have us believe (if it feels good, it's okay).

    When I know I'm right, I don't give a damn what the other side has to say.
     
  22. jfh

    jfh Member

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    columbine teaching outline, cont'd...

    for Blaine--and Justin: You're absolutely right--the questions are structured in such a way as to present an implied bias. (I just re-read my original post and discovered an error in construction--I meant to say that this stuff is biased. However, there's a lot of work here that still makes it useful--

    So, you break that one down by demonstrating that bias: ask what the assumed answer is based on by pointing out that assumption -- for the fear question, clarify how many are fearful. Some carefully done 'socratic dialogue' has them starting to question that assumption and hopefully realizing that it may not be the way the world 'really is'....

    for APerson: Gotta disagree here--if you're going to engage with them at all, you have to know where they're coming from...

    my experiences have been that for those students who hold these biased attitudes (or others as well), you have a far greater chance of teaching alternatives, of helping them get alternative information if you start with where they're at. That isn't saying you agree with them--any more than I would say I would use these materials in the form they come off the web.

    My guess is that when I start doing some subbing in a month or so, I will have some of these materials show up in a class--probably social studies--that I will be in, sooner or later--and because I know them, there can be alternatives presented--e.g., 'our perspective.'
     
  23. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    Are leftists born stupid, or do they go to school for it?

    If I'd had children, they would not have gone to union schools.
     
  24. Hillman

    Hillman Member

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    So am I correct in thinking this movie is being shown in high school?

    I'll turn away from the arguments about the credibility of the movie or Moore. I'd like to examine *how* this film can be shown in school.

    This film is rated "R". According the the MPAA rating guide, "under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian".

    Before showing this movie, are permission slips sent home and signed by parents for those students under the age of 17? Or are the teachers denying me my parental rights to censor what my minor child views, in the interest of furthering their agenda? [In all reality, I have no problem allowing my kids to watch certain R movies ... but I'm there, and we talk about it during and afterwards.]
     
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